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Subject: The cards all have seriously different abilities! rss

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Sean McCarthy
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Not just the same abilities for different colors or anything. Guys, if you love cards with abilities as much as I do, you will love this game even if you never play it. (I still haven't of course, having just gotten it!)

One warning though: it looks like ALL your cards are vulnerable to various forms of theft. So when people say this is more a tactical game than a strategic one, they are not kidding around. My guess (with zero plays) is that Innovation is the answer to the question "What if Fluxx were an amazing game, instead of an atrocious one?"
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Chris Cieslik
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Yup, just about everything can be stolen, exchanged, removed, covered up, or vaporized. (Hi, Fission!) The only thing you can't ever lose is an achievement. The rest is fair game.

And really, the game is the answer to the question "What happens if you save up all your playtesting after not having playtested a certain game at all and use it on an awesome game designer's work while writing a runon sentence-question?"
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Sean McCarthy
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By the way Chris, how would you rank the different player numbers?
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Chris Cieslik
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I'm not quite sure what you mean -- are you asking if there's a start player advantage?

I don't think so, maybe a slight edge. The alphabetical start order is very intentional, and related to the power of the Age 1 cards.

If you mean 2, 3, or 4 players, each is a different and interesting dynamic. 2 player games are very tactical, in a way I really did not expect during earlier playtests. The 3 player game is probably my favorite, interesting interactions with trying to keep one player from jumping ahead. 4 player is a little more crazy and chaotic, but lots of fun.
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Sean McCarthy
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Thanks, I meant differences between 2/3/4 players. I noticed right away that cards like Writing and The Wheel are low in that alphabetical ordering, and I thought that was very interesting. I'm looking forward to playing!
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That is not Depeche but rather
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SevenSpirits wrote:
Not just the same abilities for different colors or anything. Guys, if you love cards with abilities as much as I do, you will love this game even if you never play it. (I still haven't of course, having just gotten it!)

I had the opposite feeling. The game mostly utilizes a limited pool of mechanics repeating across the ages with minor tweaks to the color/age they effect. I do not think that's a negative thing though.

Unless you meant there are no exact duplicate cards, that's true.

 
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Sean McCarthy
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Hm, have you never played Glory to Rome (lots of exact dupes), Race for the Galaxy (some dupes + lots of predictably congruent cards), Fairy Tale (equivalent cards across 3 of the 4 colors) or pretty much any recent card game with special ability cards? Innovation looks to me like it beats out pretty much all of the ones that aren't broken and aren't Dominion plus all its expansions.

The cards in Innovation, while they share a common set of abilities as determined by the boundaries of the game rules (not exactly surprising), seem like they would pretty much all have significantly different effects on any given position. And there are 105 of them!
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SevenSpirits wrote:
Hm, have you never played Glory to Rome (lots of exact dupes), Race for the Galaxy (some dupes + lots of predictably congruent cards), Fairy Tale (equivalent cards across 3 of the 4 colors)...

I've played all three multiple times. In my opinion:

Glory to Rome - Many distinct abilities. Multiple copies of of each card.
RftG - Agreed.
Fairy Tale - A bit of a stretch to use as a comparison IMHO, but I agree with your observation.

Quote:
...or pretty much any recent card game with special ability cards? Innovation looks to me like it beats out pretty much all of the ones that aren't broken and aren't Dominion plus all its expansions.

Okay.

Quote:
The cards in Innovation, while they share a common set of abilities as determined by the boundaries of the game rules (not exactly surprising), seem like they would pretty much all have significantly different effects on any given position. And there are 105 of them!

Having not had a chance to play it yet I would say, at a glance, Innovation is much closer to RftG in that the a significant portion of the abilities are predictable based on what you see in the early ages. Now that I think of it, I'm tempted to compare it to Through the Ages in which the cards appearing later are souped-up versions of cards that came earlier, though not as blatantly.

All that said, it's probably just a matter of perspective combined with a lack of familiarity in how the game actually plays out and I'm not criticizing the game nor your opinion thereof. I'm very excited to play it myself (hopefully this weekend).
 
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Chris Cieslik
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Progmode wrote:
SevenSpirits wrote:
Hm, have you never played Glory to Rome (lots of exact dupes), Race for the Galaxy (some dupes + lots of predictably congruent cards), Fairy Tale (equivalent cards across 3 of the 4 colors)...

I've played all three multiple times. In my opinion:

Glory to Rome - Many distinct abilities. Multiple copies of of each card.
RftG - Agreed.
Fairy Tale - A bit of a stretch to use as a comparison IMHO, but I agree with your observation.

Quote:
...or pretty much any recent card game with special ability cards? Innovation looks to me like it beats out pretty much all of the ones that aren't broken and aren't Dominion plus all its expansions.

Okay.

Quote:
The cards in Innovation, while they share a common set of abilities as determined by the boundaries of the game rules (not exactly surprising), seem like they would pretty much all have significantly different effects on any given position. And there are 105 of them!

Having not had a chance to play it yet I would say, at a glance, Innovation is much closer to RftG in that the a significant portion of the abilities are predictable based on what you see in the early ages. Now that I think of it, I'm tempted to compare it to Through the Ages in which the cards appearing later are souped-up versions of cards that came earlier, though not as blatantly.

All that said, it's probably just a matter of perspective combined with a lack of familiarity in how the game actually plays out and I'm not criticizing the game nor your opinion thereof. I'm very excited to play it myself (hopefully this weekend).


Nice to be compared to awesome games

There are definitely groups of cards, spanning across multiple ages, where each subsequent card is an improvement over the last (Writing -> Experimentation). There are also cards that are unique (Alchemy, Optics, Measurement). So, I think you are both right in a way, and as a result, everyone gets a cookie. Woo!
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Christopher Giroir
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angelkurisu wrote:
So, I think you are both right in a way, and as a result, everyone gets a cookie. Woo!


I just got my copy and I didn't receive a cookie. If I see you soon can we fix that? I'd rather not have it mailed.
 
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