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Subject: Pegasus ending the game rss

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JonGetsGames
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I've played 7 games of cyclades so far, 6 of them with 5 players. In almost every game, it has ended with a pegasus action (or chimera into a pegasus) to steal a final metropolis. This is fine, but its starting to feel like the person who will win is the one late game who happens to have a big money turn right before the pegasus comes up and is able to bid high and grab it.

Anyone else seen this?
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Simon Harris
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Only played this once (really enjoyed it b.t.w.) and this is exactly how the game ended. It's not exactly a statistically significant sample but it does sound like a powerful move.

Simon
 
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Fabien Conus
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Pegasus is indeed powerful.

But so are the cyclops. Buying an additional building and turning it into the one building you were missing to get a metropolis is very powerful. And so is the combination of Harpy + Ares or Sylph + Ares or even Siren + Ares in certain cases.

Stealing the missing Philosopher with the Satyr can also win the game.

I've played Cyclades many many times, and although I do agree that Pegasus is strong, it is definitely not the only way to win.

In addition, it can be very expensive and risky. There are basically four possibilities:

1. Pegasus is present on the creature track.

In this case, a player who is in a position to get his metropolis stolen, should buy Pegasus to prevent other players to use it.

2. Pegasus is not present but is in the discard pile and Chimera is present

Same as 1, the player should buy Chimera to prevent others to do it

3. None of the two are present, and Pegasus is in the discard pile

The player can go to Zeus and switch creatures until Chimera apprears. But this can be very expensive. And if other players play well, the player going to Zeus will already pay a lot to access this god, so he should be short on money.

4. None of the two are present, and Pegasus is not in the discard pile

This is a risky situation. By going to Zeus, a player could switch creatures until Pegasus arrives. But it can be VERY expensive, and if Chimera appears first, the whole deck is reshuffled, which makes it even more expensive

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Simon Harris
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FabienC wrote:
I've played Cyclades many many times, and although I do agree that Pegasus is strong, it is definitely not the only way to win.

In addition, it can be very expensive and risky. There are basically four possibilities:

Excellent summary from an evidently experienced player - thanks. I suspected my one play might not be representative! The strategic depth you describe only makes me want to get this game even more!

Simon
 
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Zak Kaplan
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Out of four games the Pegasus ended it once.

The basic combination of having the funds to win lead offering on the turn that Pegasus rears its head should not be a guaranteed occurence.

Even in our game that ended with the Pegasus, the players simply failed to recognize the threat (it was only our second game.) It would have been countered easily.
 
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JonGetsGames
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I've played 2 games since starting this thread, and both ended with the chimera'd pegasus drop again.

Perhaps my games have just had too many people playing with little defense. We might have group think going on, but it seems that every game has at least 3 pegasus attacks and it is 90% the picked card for the Chimera. Because of this the Pegasus stays at the bottom of the discard pile all game and it becomes a waiting game for the chimera to come up in the next reshuffle to once again use the pegasus, again and again. There are other great mythical creature cards, but its hard to fault my opponents for prioritizing the Pegasus when it continually wins games. People are starting to build massive armies on one island with their Metro now and wait for the pegasus, and i'm having trouble finding a way to thwart this strategy since one or 2 players invariably build a metro on an island with only 1 soldier and therefore can't compete with the 5 that get flown in.

The next game I play i am seriously thinking about removing the Pegasus card entirely just to see what a game that isn't dominated by this one creature card will play like.

Its starting to get frustrating because i like this game SO MUCH, but we even have the winning player admitting they just got lucky most of the time now with having the funds needed on the turn when the pegasus came up. I am worried that interest might die out in my group after another game or two just because the end seems so determined by this one card
 
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Peter Williams
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You could always make a house rule that as pegasus is a horse, albeit a winged one, he is still only horsey-sized and as such can only carry a maximum of two warriors. This may stop people taking advantage of his carrying ability. Picture the scene;
Player: Come on Pegasus, take us to the island of our enemy.
Pegasus: Hang on. One, two, three, fou... FIVE! You want me to carry five fully armoured warriors! Methinks you mistake me for an airship!
Player : But it states that you can carry...
Pegasus: Whoa, whoa... States where?
Player: In the rules. Apparently, if I pay for you, the Gods say..
Pegasus: The gods can say what they like. I'm telling you no. I can take two of you and that's it.
Player: But we want to defeat the player who owns that island.
Pegasus: Here's an idea then, USE A BLOODY SHIP!
Player to other players: Didn't see that coming.
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George
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HappyHexagon wrote:
... We might have group think going on, but it seems that every game has at least 3 pegasus attacks and it is 90% the picked card for the Chimera. Because of this the Pegasus stays at the bottom of the discard pile all game and it becomes a waiting game for the chimera to come up in the next reshuffle to once again use the pegasus, again and again. ...


When Chimera comes up, we first pick a card from the discard, use it and then put it BACK in the discard pile along with the Chimera and reshuffle. In this way, Pegasus wouldn't always be waiting at the bottom.

A slight difference, but maybe it would help a bit.

I've only played two games, and one ended with Pegasus. My response to this thread was that we should be careful to protect our Metropolis with armies in the future. It sounds like that might not always be easy to accomplish though.
 
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Gláucio Reis
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I have just had my second game, and the only reason I didn´t win using the Chimera + Pegasus combo was that I forgot that Pegasus was in the discard pile. But I had Ares, and as I hadn´t recruited my soldiers when I used the Chimera, I chose the Siren instead to regain access to a metropolis, and I won, anyway.
 
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Emivaldo Sousa
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Pegasus IS the strongest card of the game.

Other cards can give you an win, but they are circunstancial. Pegasus is always useful and will almost always give you an opportunity to win after you have the first metropolis.

Pegasus can stop another player to win.

Even if the card does not gives you an win, it will certainly give you a very good advantage.

It is not broken, of course, because Cyclades allows all kinds of interaction with other players to try to avoid the player that needs the winged horse the most to grab him, but he is way better than the other offers.

The card that I really don't like though, is the chimera as it just places a second Pegasus on the deck.
 
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J R
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I have also wondered about ways to nerf pegasus... a 3 army attack limit would be fair I think, as having 2 defenders and a fortress is pretty feasible still.
Maybe Chimaera should only let you pick from 5 random cards in the discard, or only from bottom 5 on discard
 
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Charlie Theel
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If you think it's broken you have 3 options (in my eyes):

-Remove the card from the game
-Limit number of armies it can carry
-Limit it's range
 
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rock lobster
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correct me if I am wrong, but Zeus can ZAP a visible Pegasus(+Chimera) for 1g(2g) in the same turn.

sounds like your group needs to bid tougher on (defensive) Zeus.
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Lunar Sol
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It's definitely a good idea whenever you get Zeus to remove any creatures that can threaten. Honestly, I think we've only seen the game end on a Pegasus missile once. Usually our wins come from Athena. I suppose its mostly a matter of playstyle.
 
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Alex Weldon
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I think the difference between Pegasus and other creatures is that while other creatures can often be game-winners for one player, Pegasus can often be a potential game-winner for any player. Also, Pegasus doesn't require a specific god to use effectively, as long as you already have some troops on the board.

So although e.g. Sylphs + Ares can easily be a game-winner, it's usually only one person for whom that would do it, so you just make sure he doesn't get both. Even if everyone's in a position to win with Sylphs + Ares, unless Ares happens to be the first god, it's easy to make sure that whoever gets the Sylphs doesn't get Ares and vice versa.

By comparison, it's easy to have a situation where everyone has one metropolis, a couple are insufficiently defended, and Pegasus comes up... whoever gets Pegasus will then have a strong shot at winning.
 
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