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Subject: Does a crossfire modify the strength of an arty/mortar FM? rss

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Chris Buhl
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I'd tend to think not, but don't really know.

THanks,

Chris

PS - I know this is in the rules somewhere, but it's late so I'll post it - does an enemy unit that seeks cover as it's activity during the activity check segment get marked exposed?

PPS - VOF Markers affect all units on card, does this include unspotted units?
 
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Jon Bryon
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fatgreta wrote:


PS - I know this is in the rules somewhere, but it's late so I'll post it - does an enemy unit that seeks cover as it's activity during the activity check segment get marked exposed?


I'm pretty sure this is in errata and the answer is yes.
 
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Christopher
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fatgreta wrote:
I'd tend to think not, but don't really know.



I would say YES. The crossfire modifier means that you are being shot at from different directions, and as such means that it is more difficult to avoid being hit. Even if, in addition you are under mortar or artillery attack, it is still more difficult to avoid being hit, so the modifier would apply.

fatgreta wrote:

PS - I know this is in the rules somewhere, but it's late so I'll post it - does an enemy unit that seeks cover as it's activity during the activity check segment get marked exposed?


YES: seeking cover results in being exposed, be it for friendly or enemy troops

fatgreta wrote:

PPS - VOF Markers affect all units on card, does this include unspotted units?


YES, this is a mean to shoot at unspotted units. Mind you: you cannot target a card that has only unspotted enemy units on it! The only exception to this is the when the card draw reveals a Battalion Fire Mission (three burst icons), where two of those can be placed on a card with unspotted enemy units.
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Mark L
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I'm pretty sure the crossfire mod applies to arty/mortar VOF.

fatgreta wrote:
does an enemy unit that seeks cover as it's activity during the activity check segment get marked exposed?

Yes, the enemy unit does action 4.2.2e Attempt to Seek Cover. Note that units doing this action are marked exposed only if the attempt succeeds, per action table in rules.
 
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Chris Dorrell
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This is another interesting FoF rules discussion.

I think we need an official ruling on this as even the "Fields of Fire Clarifications and Corrections document: August 17, 2009" is confusing.

The clarifications given in section 6.3.1 of that document say:-
Quote:
VOF Types are as follows:
 BASIC: All Pinned, Small Arms, Automatic Weapons, Heavy Weapons
 Grenade! (only applies to a single unit, or all units under a single Cover marker, and is additive to other Grenade! VOFs), Sniper, and Incoming
 MODIFIERS to VOF (these are always added to all of the VOF listed above): Grenade Miss, Crossfire, Concentrated Fire (only applies to a single unit, or all units under a single Cover marker)

so that seems pretty clear that crossfire is added to Incoming.

BUT then later in the same section it says:-
Quote:
Grenade! and Incoming VOFs are not considered Basic per se because each requires an attempt in order to be successfully placed,.........

and a little further on:-
Quote:
Finally, the Grenade Miss, Crossfire, and Concentrated Fire VOFs are modifiers that are always applied in addition to whatever Basic VOF may apply.


Which seems to imply that crossfire only applies to Basic VOF which from the earlier definition does not include Incoming.

So confusing "clarifications" and no answer. soblue

Personally I would prefer to take the wording of the first section and simply apply Grenade Miss, Crossfire and Concentrated Fire modifiers to any other VOF types as listed.

Chris

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Chris Buhl
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Chris Dorrell wrote:
This is another interesting FoF rules discussion.

I think we need an official ruling on this as even the "Fields of Fire Clarifications and Corrections document: August 17, 2009" is confusing.

The clarifications given in section 6.3.1 of that document say:-
Quote:
VOF Types are as follows:
 BASIC: All Pinned, Small Arms, Automatic Weapons, Heavy Weapons
 Grenade! (only applies to a single unit, or all units under a single Cover marker, and is additive to other Grenade! VOFs), Sniper, and Incoming
 MODIFIERS to VOF (these are always added to all of the VOF listed above): Grenade Miss, Crossfire, Concentrated Fire (only applies to a single unit, or all units under a single Cover marker)

so that seems pretty clear that crossfire is added to Incoming.

BUT then later in the same section it says:-
Quote:
Grenade! and Incoming VOFs are not considered Basic per se because each requires an attempt in order to be successfully placed,.........

and a little further on:-
Quote:
Finally, the Grenade Miss, Crossfire, and Concentrated Fire VOFs are modifiers that are always applied in addition to whatever Basic VOF may apply.


Which seems to imply that crossfire only applies to Basic VOF which from the earlier definition does not include Incoming.

So confusing "clarifications" and no answer. soblue

Personally I would prefer to take the wording of the first section and simply apply Grenade Miss, Crossfire and Concentrated Fire modifiers to any other VOF types as listed.

Chris



Another rules discussion dominated by Chris(s). Is that because people named Chris are super precise and insightful? Or could it be driven by some darker truth?

As to this, the post about the crossfire making it harder to avoid getting hit, regardless of what VOF is used as the base modifier, makes a lot of sense to me, I hadn't thought of it that way. Unless Ben rules differently, that's what I'll go with. Which sucks for 2nd platoon, but no one ever said "War is a bunch of roses."

BTW, all of my previous rants about dice are officially over, to be replaced by rants about card draws. I had six units under fire. Five of them were drawing on +4. Three pins, one hit, one miss. The other was already pinned, so drawing on +5. Pinned. Brutal...
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Chris Dorrell
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fatgreta wrote:
Another rules discussion dominated by Chris(s). Is that because people named Chris are super precise and insightful? Or could it be driven by some darker truth?

As to this, the post about the crossfire making it harder to avoid getting hit, regardless of what VOF is used as the base modifier, makes a lot of sense to me, I hadn't thought of it that way. Unless Ben rules differently, that's what I'll go with. Which sucks for 2nd platoon, but no one ever said "War is a bunch of roses."

BTW, all of my previous rants about dice are officially over, to be replaced by rants about card draws. I had six units under fire. Five of them were drawing on +4. Three pins, one hit, one miss. The other was already pinned, so drawing on +5. Pinned. Brutal...


I think if there's ever an expansion for FoF, all we Chris's should get a discount!

I agree about applying crossfire etc regardless of VOF, as it makes sense and it's simpler.

Now if we're going to discuss card draws!! I think my FoF Action deck is possessed or subject to some external force. I made the mistake of mentioning to my wife that I had almost finished WWII Mission 2 and that the only thing that could screw things up would be a counterattack - you can guess what happened! You can also guess that she was really interested .... or not.... shake
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Mark L
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Here is a CSW response by Ben on the subject:

Ben Hull - Jul 7, 2009 12:43 pm (#2885)

Quote:
Just want to make sure I understand you here. You're saying that just like the Basic VOF Types, Incoming, Sniper and Grenade G! VOFs ARE modified by Grenade Miss, Crossfire, and Concentrated fire ("the three special types.")?

You are understanding me. ...



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Chris Buhl
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Chris Dorrell wrote:
Now if we're going to discuss card draws!! I think my FoF Action deck is possessed or subject to some external force. I made the mistake of mentioning to my wife that I had almost finished WWII Mission 2 and that the only thing that could screw things up would be a counterattack - you can guess what happened! You can also guess that she was really interested .... or not.... shake


At least she didn't launch one herself, in your weakened and distracted state...
 
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Chris Buhl
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Chris Dorrell wrote:


I think if there's ever an expansion for FoF, all we Chris's should get a discount!


IF?!?! What is that supposed to mean!?! Think positive, damnit!!! You're going to need a much more positive attitude WHEN the expansion for FoF comes out!
 
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Chris Dorrell
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fatgreta wrote:
Chris Dorrell wrote:


I think if there's ever an expansion for FoF, all we Chris's should get a discount!


IF?!?! What is that supposed to mean!?! Think positive, damnit!!! You're going to need a much more positive attitude WHEN the expansion for FoF comes out!


You are quite right! I stand corrected and humbled. blush

Of course there will be expansions!

As for the marital counterattack that would be in the form of a trouncing at Uruk: Wiege der Zivilisation or Saint Petersburg which are our current two player favourites (cos she wins)...

Cheers
Chris
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Chris Buhl
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Chris Dorrell wrote:
fatgreta wrote:
Chris Dorrell wrote:


I think if there's ever an expansion for FoF, all we Chris's should get a discount!


IF?!?! What is that supposed to mean!?! Think positive, damnit!!! You're going to need a much more positive attitude WHEN the expansion for FoF comes out!


You are quite right! I stand corrected and humbled. blush

Of course there will be expansions!

As for the marital counterattack that would be in the form of a trouncing at Uruk: Wiege der Zivilisation or Saint Petersburg which are our current two player favourites (cos she wins)...

Cheers
Chris


Interesting. A game I've never heard of and a game I keep meaning to get ahold of. I think my wife could dig St. Petersburg too. I love that game.
 
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Chris Buhl
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Chris Dorrell wrote:

expansions!


Nice, I missed the plural the first time through.
 
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