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Subject: Your task is to tempt me into playing euros rss

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Chris Stevens
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My games collection is essentially grognard with some Ameritrash for those lighter moments. If you were going to get me into euros what single game would you put on the table and why?
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Alex DeGuy
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Chaos in the Old World. It's pretty ameritrashy in rolling loads of dice, but it uses European victory point track and some worker placement too.
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Russ Williams
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Given that you've only rated 2 games and said almost nothing about what concrete themes, mechanics, etc interest you, it's kind of hard to say... I'll propose Power Grid, but it's a total stab in the dark, really.

But if I were you, I would simply read some reviews of highly rated Euros that sound potentially interesting and try out the ones that sound like they might click with you.
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Bryan Maxwell
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I think The Grande is a good starting point.
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John McD
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Alert me to every proper session report you do on a Euro this year and I'll give you 1 bonus gg, with an additional 10gg for the tenth euro you do a session report on.
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Robert Voisin
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Your loss on some of the greatest games to be played.
To recommend one is to hard, with out knowing your likes. Just know there is a lot of good gaming to be had with trying out the top rated games as a starting point.
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Chris Stevens
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The Ameritrash games I have are largely about theme. And the high quality components are a definite plus. Coupled with the historic aspects of the wargames how about something like Sylla?

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Chris Stevens
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BlackSpy wrote:
Alert me to every proper session report you do on a Euro this year and I'll give you 1 bonus gg, with an additional 10gg for the tenth euro you do a session report on.


10 out of 10 for your attempt to corrupt me. My integrity will see me stand firm!
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WarMonger2009 wrote:
My games collection is essentially grognard with some Ameritrash for those lighter moments. If you were going to get me into euros what single game would you put on the table and why?


Antiquity - it's long, has a hex map, tons of chits, minimal luck (if you Explore, you draw a resource, but we don't usually Explore, so our games are zero luck). You can encircle your opponent as a victory condition. It has pollution and graves. You can up the famine track, putting the squeeze on your opponent. You take care of your people by making sure they have enough food, and you build buildings that will give you the powers/abilities that you need. Asymmetrical endgame conditions.

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Luc VC
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Neuroshima Hex!

Why? Coz it's great, features a series of battles and it has hexes. What grognard can resist hexes?

Alternatively Reef Encounter as it's has an unique feel and plays well with any number of players (2-4).
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Andy Beaton
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WarMonger2009 wrote:
My games collection is essentially grognard with some Ameritrash for those lighter moments. If you were going to get me into euros what single game would you put on the table and why?


I'll suggest Tobago, for it's well integrated theme, high quality components and the fact that it's a lot of fun.
And it has hexes and terrain, so when you get bored, you can bring out your ASL counters and play a small Pacific island scenario on it.
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Rodney Clowsewitz
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Yeah you're a little hard to peg. I have an eclectic collection so I'll just throw some games out there that I enjoy and hope you might too.

Wars of the Roses: Lancaster vs. York
Imperial 2030
Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery

And of course the best gateway game from euro to wargame or vice versa Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42 Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel! – Kursk 1943.
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Bill Eldard
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WarMonger2009 wrote:
Your task is to tempt me into playing euros


Task yourself to research BGG. Take a look at the Top 10, or Top 20, or 30, et al, and

- Read the decriptions. Do you like the mechanics?

- Read the reviews. Some are very detailed and informative.

- Look at the images of the components. Do you like what you see?

- Consider the number of players and game length, and determine what fits for you and you group.

- Consider the theme. Is theme important to you? Not all games are rich in theme. Determine what appeals to you.

- Consider availablity of expansions and variants if you like to build on existing games.

Then when you've narrowed it down, pick one and try it.

You'll be far more likely to be satisfied with your choice than with someone else's preference.
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Patiently waiting for the zombie apocalypse...
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I would recommend, Imperial.

It seems like it will be a war game, but it is not. Purely economic, but has a neat military flair to it. It is also a very cynical game. One wants to beef up the military, and expand, but also you want it to be destroyed before you have to pay for it all.

Great game. Heavy thinking. Little luck.
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Maarten D. de Jong
Netherlands
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WarMonger2009 wrote:
The Ameritrash games I have are largely about theme. And the high quality components are a definite plus. Coupled with the historic aspects of the wargames how about something like Sylla?

Really, don't. For one thing, euros are not renowed for their strong coupling between subject and mechanics. The subject is more about 'covering up' the raw details of the mechanics than it is about reliving a certain episode in human history (or imagining one yet to come) or telling a story. Euros simply 'game' so to speak, and rarely take longer than an hour or two to play. You can't cover much subject details in that time, so something has to give. Case in point: Sylla is a weird hodgepodge of all sorts of mechanics which tend to obscure the subject rather well. Don't expect to be feeling like a Roman official in this game.

If you were to visit my place, you'd proably be fed one of the titles I consider to be good to very good. Given your wargaming background, I'd settle for a euro-ised wargame, like Tigris & Euphrates, but Vinci and Mare Nostrum would also be possibilities. After that, there's about a dozen majorly different mechanics to explore, each with their 'representative game'. It would also depend on how much time you'd have before you had to leave for home again meeple.

So why Tigris? The rules are fairly simple, but do not tell the player what to do, only what he can do. Second, tactics integrate quite seamlessly into strategies, creating a pleasing playing rythm you're never really 'out' of. Third, despite the influx of random tiles, you can nearly always do something useful, be it furthering your own position or preparing to severly damage another player's. And with experienced players, it's over and done with in about 90 minutes.
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p55carroll
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WarMonger2009 wrote:
My games collection is essentially grognard with some Ameritrash for those lighter moments.

The portion of my collection I actually play (or at least consider playing) is like that too.

Quote:
If you were going to get me into euros what single game would you put on the table and why?

I wouldn't want to get you into Eurogames; it's your choice. I ventured into them, partly just to see what all the fuss was about. I decided they're great for social gaming, but that's about it.

Wargames are something I end up playing solitaire, unless I go out of my way to find an opponent. I guess Runebound (Second Edition) counts as Ameritrash, and for me it's a light solo pastime. But the Eurogames in my collection are to play with my wife and friends or relatives, and they're perfect for that. They're generally small enough, short enough, and light enough that they suit most any mixed group of people; and they usually have a nice luck-to-skill balance--plenty to think about, but not enough to make the average person slip into AP.

Which Eurogame? Depends on how many players you expect to have, for one thing. Just check the BGG ratings list; start at the top and work your way down till you see something that clicks for you.

If I had to name a game right at this moment, it'd be Lord of the Rings. But that's just because I recently got it (and all its expansions) in a trade, and I'm delighted with it. Because it's a cooperative game, it works solo or with two or more players. Since it's a Eurogame, it doesn't have a lot of explicit detail--it's more abstract; but if you know the story behind the game, you'll fill in a lot of detail with your imagination (if you care to).

The one thing LotR does not have (except to some degree in the Sauron expansion) is player-vs-player competition. If you're big into psyching out other players and manipulating your way to victory, you'll be disappointed with LotR. But I generally hate that in games anyway, so LotR is perfect for me.
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Chris Stevens
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indigopotter wrote:


Ouch! Have just seen the price which seems to be a little beyond a first foray into euro land.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
I ventured into them, partly just to see what all the fuss was about. I decided they're great for social gaming, but that's about it.

...? Would you mind elaborating what you mean by 'social gaming'? You phrased yor opinion in such a fashion that it appears there are many other forms of gaming out there, but I can think of just one: solo gaming (i.e., not being social about it); that's why I don't quite see what prompted you to write 'but that's about it'.
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Russ Williams
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cymric wrote:
Patrick Carroll wrote:
I ventured into them, partly just to see what all the fuss was about. I decided they're great for social gaming, but that's about it.

...? Would you mind elaborating what you mean by 'social gaming'? You phrased yor opinion in such a fashion that it appears there are many other forms of gaming out there, but I can think of just one: solo gaming (i.e., not being social about it); that's why I don't quite see what prompted you to write 'but that's about it'.

I also wondered about that. I assume Patrick wasn't making a tautological statement (and didn't mean simply in contrast with playing solo), so I supposed it was a (perhaps somewhat dismissive) way of saying that they're only good for playing in a casual setting with non-serious gamers, analogous to "party games" or Scrabble or something. E.g. if some non-gamer friend has a party and asks you to bring along some of your weird games just in case a few people want to play something.

Which makes me wonder what Euros Patrick played, since there are indeed plenty of such casual Euros but also plenty of nontrivial strategic Euros that are not suitable for casual players, and I wouldn't think of them as for "social gaming" as I understand the phrase. (E.g. try explaining Egizia to casual non-gamers or semi-gamers... I have seen it happen, and it wasn't pretty...)
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Steve Duff
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Hatepig wrote:


There's your winner right there. A board full of plastic soldiers, yet undeniably still 100% euro-y goodness.

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Graham Dean
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I would second a vote for Wars of the Roses: Lancaster vs. York, which is a fantastic euro game, dripping with historic theme.

I would also recommend that you check out games by Martin Wallace. Many of his games have a lot of depth, and I believe he starts his designs with the theme and selects the game mechanics around that.
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p55carroll
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cymric wrote:
Patrick Carroll wrote:
I ventured into them, partly just to see what all the fuss was about. I decided they're great for social gaming, but that's about it.

...? Would you mind elaborating what you mean by 'social gaming'? You phrased yor opinion in such a fashion that it appears there are many other forms of gaming out there, but I can think of just one: solo gaming (i.e., not being social about it); that's why I don't quite see what prompted you to write 'but that's about it'.


Oh. Sorry I wasn't clearer. It's one of those things that's clear in my mind, but I didn't stop and realize it wouldn't be clear to everybody.

Well, here's a blurb from my BGG User Profile that may shed some light on it:

Quote:
To me, there are four main things one can get out of playing games:
1. plan and execute strategy or solve puzzles--exercise the mind;
2. interact with people--socialize, compete, trade, negotiate, etc.;
3. gamble or make plays for a tactical edge--try to beat the odds;
4. enjoy the theme/narrative--participate in an imaginary world.

In some games, you can do all four at once. Some games emphasize just one or two of the four. Some game players gravitate toward one or two of the four, while others like 'em all.

As to me: (1) I'm not much of a planner; mental exercise is a motivator for me, but it also feels too much like work; (2) social interaction, to me, often seems incongruent with gaming (conflict spoils the harmony I prefer); (3) I'm no gambler, but I like getting lucky; I value randomizers as a way of turning work into play; (4) I do like getting immersed in a game's theme or setting, provided the game doesn't end up being excruciatingly detailed and complicated. So, aspects 3 and 4 above are what I like best about gaming--preferably in a solo or cooperative game, or a 2-player game.

Since my own preference in games involves a lot of aspect 4 and a good deal of aspect 3, but less of aspect 1 and even less of aspect 2, I guess I think of that as "asocial" gaming. Quite often I end up doing it solo; and even when I'm doing it face-to-face or PBEM, I'm so absorbed in the theme and my dice rolls and such that I'm practically oblivious to what my opponents are doing. That is, I tend to treat most all games as "multiplayer solitaire."

But every once in a while, I want to invite friends to join my wife and me for a game. Or we'll have guests over and decide to play a game. In those social situations, I'm not going to suggest World in Flames. I'm going to look for a game that everybody in the group can enjoy, regardless of what he likes best about games.

So, I guess by "social gaming" I meant the kind of gaming you do in a mixed group of people, where you're likely to have to make compromises to keep everybody happy.

Of course, if you're the kind of person who enjoys all four above-listed aspects of games about equally, maybe you don't have to compromise. But the OP described himself as a "grognard" with "Ameritrash" inclinations, so it sounds like he'd have to compromise--just as I do.


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WarMonger2009 wrote:
indigopotter wrote:


Antiquity


Ouch! Have just seen the price which seems to be a little beyond a first foray into euro land.


Certainly, but I didn't suggest you should buy it, only that you should try it. Your post didn't say that you were looking for games to purchase, only to try.
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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I'm going to say Chaos in the Old World is your best bet. It is area control, action selection, worker placement euro-y, but you feel like a chaos god and it is awesome.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
So, I guess by "social gaming" I meant the kind of gaming you do in a mixed group of people, where you're likely to have to make compromises to keep everybody happy.

Okay, thanks for explaining. However I think your previous description is too limited; Russ pointed this out already, too. Euros come in more sizes and shapes than just compromise games. Yes, it's an area they excel in, true, but there are plenty of designs out there which provide a greater and more complex challenge for the players. For example, I have many titles in my collection I will not put out in front of my mother because they're simply too difficult for her. (The game I recommended the OP, Tigris & Euphrates, is one of them.) But with the right crowd they're a stellar hit. I agree compromises have to be made, but I feel they're more of the sort which result from cutting down on playing time and immersiveness.
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