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Subject: Broken/Banned Cards rss

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zilch zilch
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Have you guys removed any broken/banned cards from your decks? I think my group is going to end up removing the Wet Nurse, the Lover, and the Chamberlain from the deck.

Any other suggestions?
Any arguments against removing these?
Anyone agree about removing these?
 
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Kevin Brown
United States
Macon
Georgia
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We have taken out the Taster and the Mail Coach Driver.

We have not taken out any of the cards you mention.
 
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zilch zilch
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I forgot to mention the Ratcatcher.
 
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Uatu-o-Lantern
United States
Fountain Valley
California
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Why is there no Word Games Forum or Subdomain?
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There should be a Word Games Subdomain, or at least a Word Games Forum!
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My group doesn't ban any cards (though I think we use a slight modification to the Taster, but it's never come up in a game I was in).

I played a four-player game the other day, and the guy with the Wet Nurse came in dead last. He's an experienced player.
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Eric Flood
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San Francisco
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thezilch wrote:
I forgot to mention the Ratcatcher.

Ohh...the Ratcatcher is my favorite card! I always seem to get it, and it pisses my g/f off to no avail.

I don't think it's broken, btw. Lose one (early to snag Occ) turn+1 food to make other players lose (max) 2 (end) turns.
 
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The wet nurse seems ridiculously overpowered at first glance, but in our games its never turned out to be broken or even have a serious impact on the results of the game.

I think the reason for this is because with one player not competing to expand their family........the other players have much easier access to the "grow your family" spaces. This is especially true in 2 and 3 player games.
 
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zilch zilch
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Ratcatcher isn't necessarily broken, but it is among a list of optionally banned cards on http://banach.ucsd.edu/Agricola/

For the list of optionally banned cards, see below or click here: http://banach.ucsd.edu/forums/index.php?topic=548.0

E occ, Ratcatcher
E minor, Wooden Hut Extension (added April 20, 2010)
I occ, Taster
I occ, Chamberlain
(K minor, Broom) (removed Jan 1, 2010)
K minor, Reedhut (added Sept 18, 2009)
K occ, Lover
K occ, Wetnurse
Z occ, Mail Coach Driver (added Sept 18, 2009)
O minor, Guest Worker (added Sept 18, 2009)

note: Z minor Maypole and Z occ Herald are always prevented.
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zilch zilch
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Zaphod wrote:
I think the reason for this is because with one player not competing to expand their family........the other players have much easier access to the "grow your family" spaces. This is especially true in 2 and 3 player games.

This may be true, but Wet Nurse allows you to grow usually by round 4 and as early as round three if things go right for you. That's a game-changer if everyone else has to wait until round 7 to grow (33% of the time). You might even double grow by then.
 
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Kevin Brown
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Macon
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thezilch wrote:
note: Z minor Maypole and Z occ Herald are always prevented.

The Maypole is prevented because it's basically impossible to implement online. In F2F games, it's a silly thing.
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sonny sonny
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we have removed about two thirds of all cards :D there is still enough left to play with, and some of the removed cards we use as beginner deck when we have newbies.
 
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David Tolin
United States
Beaumont
Texas
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Only the Taster.
 
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Mike T
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Wow, 2/3? That seems like it would drastically limit the variability!
 
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A Gamer
United States
California
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Yeah 2/3? Amazed! What criteria did you use?
 
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Mike Forrey
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Dallastown
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Is the game even playable after you remove 2/3 of the cards?
 
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A C
United States
Ewa Beach
Hawaii
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The only cards we ban are the Wet Nurse, Lover and the Ax.

I really, really think the ax is unfair in 4 and 5 player games. The ability to reduce the need of 15 wood to 7 and 1 stone is beyond ridiculous.

Wet Nurse and Lover for obvious reasons. Anything that allows you an early family member tilts the game. Not a guaranteed win, but most certainly overpowered.
 
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Mike T
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bearn wrote:
Is the game even playable after you remove 2/3 of the cards?

Of course. Anyone who plays with a single deck instead of mixing them does so.


Dragonspirit wrote:
The only cards we ban are the Wet Nurse, Lover and the Ax.

I really, really think the ax is unfair in 4 and 5 player games. The ability to reduce the need of 15 wood to 7 and 1 stone is beyond ridiculous.

Wet Nurse and Lover for obvious reasons. Anything that allows you an early family member tilts the game. Not a guaranteed win, but most certainly overpowered.

I don't think the Ax is as big of a deal as you suggest. It certainly saves a lot of wood, and is a very nice card, but it's hardly broken. If you look at the statistics compiled here: http://play-agricola.com/forums/index.php?topic=1585.0 you'll see that the Axe only provides a very mild boost to win % when drafted. Part of that may be that many people play it poorly (waiting too long to try and build 3 rooms at once, for instance), and it may be stronger in the hands of a skilled player, but I really doubt it's as overpowered as, for instance, the Taster or the Reed Hut.
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A Gamer
United States
California
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I like having someone else play the axe because they aren't competing for wood with the rest of us.
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Mike Forrey
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I'm sure it can be played with fewer cards but for me i don't enjoy the game without all the decks mixed as one to give a large variety of choices.
 
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Bram Verbiest
Belgium
Kaprijke
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I have the game in Dutch, I don't know the English word for 'Rijdende Ploeg' (Drving Plow or something? ). The card where you can sow twice to get 3 instead of 1 plowed field. In the 3 games I played this was twice in game and the guy with the card won by some distance. It's pretty big, as it's not that easy to plow a lot, it fills empty spots very easy and you can get tons of food, this can easily mean 15 points difference, too big if you ask me ...

Ok you need 3 occupations but still, you can get that pretty easy fast enough. I someone plays that investment I'll play against him to have a chance to win ... It's my game so I'm considering taking it out
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James Huang
Canada
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Riding Plow is certainly a strong card, but I wouldn't consider it overpowered. It's actually fairly restrictive compared to the other strong plows (Crooked -- 1 plow -> 3 fields once; Moldboard -- 1 plow -> 2 fields twice), because you're not going to want to plow before getting that card out and it's fairly expensive (4w + 3 occs), and in larger games the Plow Field square is fairly highly contested in the end rounds.

However, it's certainly a kick in the nads when a rancher suddenly plays Riding Plow + Field Warden in round 12 and guarantees themselves a relatively full field.

Also, all the other overpowered cards are "must-pick" cards in a draft if you see them in your hand.
 
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Christine Lawrence
United States
San Diego
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The honey badger is really pretty badass. It has no regard for any other animal whatsoever. Look at him, he's just grunting, and eating snakes. Eew! What's that? A mouse? Oh that's nasty.
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But look! The honey badger doesn't care! It's getting stung like a thousand times. It doesn't give a $#%^. It's just hungry. It doesn't care about being stung by bees. Nothing can stop the honey badger when it's hungry. What a crazy @&#%!
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We have taken out only the Ratcatcher and Mail Coach Driver.
 
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sonny sonny
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swelltown wrote:
Yeah 2/3? Amazed! What criteria did you use?
sorry i haven't been here for a while =) our criteria was balancing.

we removed all cards that people usually don't play, or regret having played it. and those cards that seem overpowered. we also tended to remove cards that give easy food (feeding should be a challenge!), like apple tree, altough it doesn't seem that unbalanced. also some interactive cards that are annoying to others (the game should be fun for everyone!) like ratcatcher, wood buyer etc.

since the original game came with 3 decks, after removing 2/3 of all cards, we still have the size of one full deck. actually more, because we also added cards from additional decks (Z, Ö, Cz, even a few from fotm). that's sufficient in our oppinion.

half of the remaining cards (the "well above average" and "simple to feed" ones) are our beginners deck. we use this one when playing with newbies. the rest ("annoying to others", "rarely useful" or "overpowered but too complicated for newbies") is simply not used.

we sometimes remove one or the other card, or add previously removed card back from/to our deck.
 
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zilch zilch
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thezilch (Original Post) wrote:
Have you guys removed any broken/banned cards from your decks? I think my group is going to end up removing the Wet Nurse, the Lover, and the Chamberlain from the deck.

Any other suggestions?
Any arguments against removing these?
Anyone agree about removing these?

Update: We've only banned two cards. We banned the Mail Coach Delivery driver and, as of last night, the Taster.
 
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