Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Children's Games» Forums » General

Subject: Whats the problem with the Kid's game rankings? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ben Foy
United States
Ellicott City
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
I realize that perfectly good kid's games have been given low ratings because adults don't like them. But the games given high rankings seem good (with the exception of Louping Louie). It seems like the high ranked games would be fun for both adults and children.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Whitcher
United States
Manchester
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Since the games are ranked by how much a person wants to play rather that how much their child likes it or how educational the game might be, etc it’s not surprising that children’s games rank poorly.

Besides rankings are only useful if you are an average person with average taste. Of the top 10 games here there is only one i might bother picking up unless it was a fantastic bargain.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Foy
United States
Ellicott City
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Really?!?

Gulo Gulo and Tier auf Tier are both recommended here. Which games would you recommend for young children?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Taylor
United States
Aurora
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have Gulo Gulo, but not the other. My family has played Gulo Gulo a lot; it's a really good game. It can be challenging for all ages, it's easy to learn, and young kids (e.g. my six year old) have a true chance of winning without giving them the win.

Mike
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Tait
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
I don't see a problem either, especially now kids' games have their own rankings. I assume that most parents recognize that their kids may enjoy low-ranked games like _Candy Land_. But I have found the high-ranked kids' games to be consistently popular with my daughter, and enjoyable by me as well.

I don't see why we shouldn't look for games that both adults and kids enjoy, rather than treating a kid's game as an instrument of purgatorial discipline for the parent!

Edwin
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke Morris
England
Faversham
Kent
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Our friends kids really love Linwood.
I'm not too overly enamoured by it but it's the perfect weight for them and mixes the luck (which kids love) of dice rolls with the thinking of which order to target the stones you have to go and get. It also gives them the chance to screw their parents / adult friends.

So yeah, ask me what I think and it's a 5 or 6. Ask them and they'll happily say TEN.
If BGG ratings were all from children instead of adults the top 100 would be hugely different. Whatever we try with them, they sill like different games to us lot while they're young.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Albin
United States
Lancaster
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
HamsterOfFury wrote:
If BGG ratings were all from children instead of adults the top 100 would be hugely different. Whatever we try with them, they still like different games to us lot while they're young.


That's what happens when the people who rate the games (the adults who buy the games) are different from the people that play the games (the children). Note that many of the "children's games" that get the higher ratings can also be enjoyed by adults. I don't believe that to be a coincidence.

Perhaps there is a website out there where children, and only children, rate these games. But even if there is such a website, it won't draw much attention from advertisers (and see how far your website gets when advertisers aren't interested in it). It's the adults that spend the money on the games, so it's the adult's ratings and websites that get the attention from the game companies - unless game manufacturers are now taking payments in bubble gum?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
Randy Weston - The Spirits of Our Ancestors
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BFoy wrote:
Gulo Gulo and Tier auf Tier are both recommended here. Which games would you recommend for young children?


I have both, and recommend both. My granddaughter certainly enjoys them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S. Deniz Bucak
United States
Havertown
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
As Above, So Below
badge
My books are forgeries. Nobody wrote them. - Philip K. Dick
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gulo Gulo has a geek rating of only 6.7 . I would contend that if people were rating it as a game to be played with children it would be a lot higher than that. 6.7 isn't bad, but it's only a middling rating compared to the adult games. Personally I rate it a 9.

Having the kid's game ratings separate is a good solution though and the top 100 kid's games is a excellent list.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Bosch
Spain
Girona
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have a 3 year old daughter and I'm starting to suffer the child ratings problems. I've recently made a big purchase (say 11 games) and the most useful tool in BGG were the comments of the people. I've never paid attention tot the ratings.

I think that the way to go is to rate every game "according the feelings of my X year old soon/daughter" so the parents would rate the games on behalf of the children (based on how they like it or deslike or even based on their willingness to play each game). The only "con" to this system is that at the end you give an 8 to both Hop!Hop!Hop! and Pax Romana but who cares if you specify in your comment that you are rating the game on your children behalf.

It would be an improvement if BGG made clear that the ratings of the childrens games should be made based on the willingness of the children to play the game and not the parents. Seems obvious but when you do some reserch you can find easily 4 ratings and comments like "great game for my 4 year old children but a pain in the ass every time I have to play it"

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
suPUR DUEper
United States
Villa Hills
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mboschbo wrote:
I have a 3 year old daughter and I'm starting to suffer the child ratings problems. I've recently made a big purchase (say 11 games) and the most useful tool in BGG were the comments of the people. I've never paid attention tot the ratings.

I think that the way to go is to rate every game "according the feelings of my X year old soon/daughter" so the parents would rate the games on behalf of the children (based on how they like it or deslike or even based on their willingness to play each game). The only "con" to this system is that at the end you give an 8 to both Hop!Hop!Hop! and Pax Romana but who cares if you specify in your comment that you are rating the game on your children behalf.

It would be an improvement if BGG made clear that the ratings of the childrens games should be made based on the willingness of the children to play the game and not the parents. Seems obvious but when you do some reserch you can find easily 4 ratings and comments like "great game for my 4 year old children but a pain in the ass every time I have to play it"



This would not be an improvement; it would make the ratings even less useful than they are today. The more you use one number (i.e. a game's rating) to reflect different things (i.e. your opinion on an "adult" game and your "kids" rating on a kids game), the more you pollute the number. It's bad enough that half of the geek doesn't follow the rating convention as it is defined and have instead substituted their own rubric.

If you want to do it, you should have a second rating that addresses how it is received by kids. The problem is, "kids" is not a homogenous group at all. A 4 year old's tastes (think Candyland) are far different from a nine year olds tastes (think Heroscape).




5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Bosch
Spain
Girona
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TedW wrote:


This would not be an improvement; it would make the ratings even less useful than they are today. The more you use one number (i.e. a game's rating) to reflect different things (i.e. your opinion on an "adult" game and your "kids" rating on a kids game), the more you pollute the number. It's bad enough that half of the geek doesn't follow the rating convention as it is defined and have instead substituted their own rubric.

If you want to do it, you should have a second rating that addresses how it is received by kids. The problem is, "kids" is not a homogenous group at all. A 4 year old's tastes (think Candyland) are far different from a nine year olds tastes (think Heroscape).






I agree that kids games should have a separate rating adressing how the game is received by kids (understanding that you refer to the age range suggested by the plublisher). But meanwhile Aldie and admins do something on it, it's better to rate every childrens game on behalf of your children based on how they receive the game. At least if everybody does this you will be able to find easily which children games are better than others.

In fact, I don't think you need a second rating for every childrens game. One rating is enough but should be based on childrens feelings about their games.



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Norwood
United States
Graham
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Come visit me at GamerChris.com for all sorts of chewy, gamery goodness!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Whether or not there's an official second place to rate them for kids, that's what I've started to do anyway.

From now on, the rating I give a children's game will be how much I want to play it with my daughter and/or other kids. But within the comments, I'll give a rating about how I would rate it for myself.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Norwood
United States
Graham
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Come visit me at GamerChris.com for all sorts of chewy, gamery goodness!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh, and another good site to find ratings for children's games from a child's perspective is at KidGameRatings.com.

I don't know if it's updated a lot anymore (ever since they had a lot of trouble with spamming or hackers or something), but the information there is still pretty valuable.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randy Cox
United States
Clemson
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
1024x768 works just fine - Don't Wide the Site!
badge
Missing old BGG
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The fallacy is that a good kid game must appeal to adults. You said that these high ranked games seem fun for adults and children.

My questions are:

- Which games are most adored by kids, regardless of the parent's enjoyment

- Which games will a couple of kids, playing alone, enjoy
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Got two game tables and a microphone
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would think (and this may be a good research topic for those that dig this kind of thing) kids reviews have much less grey area in them than many of us picky adults.

I think the kids religiously subscribe to the YAY! Meh. BLEK! rating system.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nico Solitander
Finland
Helsinki
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Randy Cox wrote:
The fallacy is that a good kid game must appeal to adults. You said that these high ranked games seem fun for adults and children.

My questions are:

- Which games are most adored by kids, regardless of the parent's enjoyment

- Which games will a couple of kids, playing alone, enjoy


Scientific research shows that the answer to your question is:
Chicken Cha Cha Cha and Hungry Wolves



The thing with the rating here at BGG is that as people often rightly point out in the personal comments section they have rated the game as an adult game - pressumably in order to be comperable to the other ratings, very often you then in the text see a shadow rating which is given for the game as a "kids' game", which is usually quite higher than what shows in the number box. The other problem with children's game ranking is that in order to be useful they'd need to be sub-cathegorized by age - and here unfortunately we are not helped by manufacturers' recommendations which are arbitrary at best. For example Hide the Kids! should be ranked very high as a game for very young children, whereas it is likely to be less good if tested with older children.

Third thing is that since children game raters are in such a minority you never get to know about some really excellent games just because they are unranked because of low vote counts recent games that spring to mind are Hungry Wolves and Curli Kuller and Der kleine Ritter Trenk
5 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Spitzley
United States
Belleville
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When my wife and I finally adopt, I'll be setting up an account on our child's behalf to post their ratings of games, in contrast to mine. I'm assuming this will be kosher, and if so it seems like a logical solution to me for other families.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aeos James
Australia
Townsville
Queensland
flag msg tools
G'Day Tiger. How 'bout a game?
badge
https://www.facebook.com/BoardGameKnights
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Whats the problem with the Kid's game rankings?

1.) My children when born, come out at 0 years old. The top ten games require you to be at least 4.

2.) We need games rated for specific ages. Ironically this top ten list is different than the BGG top ten, why is that? perhaps because the voters are of a different age?

3.) Does this top ten list suit ages 0-2? 3-4? 5-6? 7-8? 9-10?... NO! That's correct its suits none of them. You may as well include games that come in other languages aswell

4.) What you're suggesting is not unlike having no categories at all. Would you be able to easily find the abstract games you like for example?... NO!


Would the Geek benefit from games having multiple ratings to suit certain ages, that could be turned off for those that don't care... OF COURSE!

Would it be more work for BGG... YES!

Would it be extremely useful for parents to find games that suit the age range of their children... YES!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.