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Subject: I really can't decide rss

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Ho hd
Malaysia
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18xx, Go and Puerto Rico Rocks!!!
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Hi Everyone,

I know this has been discussed many times and I have read all about them, that SoE and RoE are two different games, etc.

I can only purchase one of them and I cannot decide which one to get! Both looks good to me, omg. And please don't ask me to get both, not now. lol.

In general, our group of players have the following characteristics:

1. We have at least 5 players in every of our sessions.

2. We don't mind long and meaty games, so long as the experience is rewarding (e.g. we love Die Macher, 1856, TtA)

3. We don't quite like games with lots of luck factor and the sight of dice will usually put us off (although we will check and see the role of the dice... if not significant such as that in Die Macher, we are ok) - Perhaps SoE losses points here?

4. In general, we like building more than destroying.

5. We don't like down time (I don't know who does, anyways)

6. We don't like too much unnecessary fiddling and record keeping (TtA suffers from this in our opinion but we got pass that because it is such a great game in general).

Many thanks in advance for your help.





 
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Andrei Filip
Canada
New Westminster
BC
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I've never played SoE so I can't comment of it but RoE fills all the points you described earlier. Here's in short what I find good and bad about it:

Good:
- Great aesthetics. Important if you're staring at the game for 2-3 hours.
- The reversed turns is a good mechanic that forces players to plan ahead and pay attention to the order of play.
- Great combat mechanic. Simple, clean and meaningful. I love it.
- Short civilization game
- Decent tech tree with nice strategic implications and nice integration with the terrains, favoring combos and careful planing.


Not so good:
- The reversed turns and losing cubes (population) at the end of an age makes little sense thematically speaking. As a consequence they feel weird and not very intuitive (aka something you do because the game tells you so). Same thing with paying for cities and technologies. Luckily you only do this at the end of an age so it's easy to follow.
- I haven't played the game enough but it looks like controlling the map is the real important strategy and the rest is just stuff you get in the meantime. Not really multiple ways to victory, if that's what you're looking for.
- Resources are more of a bonus than a goal, in contrast with food and cubes, which are important and players will fight over them. As a consequence trading seems like a tacked-on mechanic, something to justify gathering all the resource you can't use for anything else.
- Poor implementation of cities

Frankly I was expecting more from RoE. I find Tempus to be a better game in the same genre.
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Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
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I have both.

First of all, the dice in DM are significnt. I'm not sure why you say they're not. Secondly, the card draw in DM is just as random as dice, and also very significant. So if you're ok with the luck in DM, you should be ok with SoE. The one place where some people get offended is when they've purposely stacked the odds in their favor, and lose.

Argument in favor of SoE: Scales to 7, and in fact shines with 7. Mostly due to the innovative alliance system. Manipulating alliances is my favorite part of this game.

Argument in favor of RoE: In SoE there are many choices for upgrades you can get. Too many. It makes my head explode. In RoE they come out in stages, so you choose from a much smaller set.

I strongly disagree with the "no multiple paths to victory" comment for RoE above. The paths are defined by the tiles you take. And there are many paths. But of course no matter what tiles you take, you need to have a presence on the map. If you're thinking you can avoid playing on the board as a viable path, then yeah, you can't do that. But that seems way outside the context of the game.

I sort of suspect you will prefer SoE, although for me I don't think I'll play again. I do long for the alliances, but can't justify the extra time (maybe an extra 15 minutes per player), or the headache from trying to figure out all the tile selections from the beginning. As an aside, the rule book for RoE is notoriously buggy. The "beta" faq here clears up issues, but still, it's annoying.
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Ho hd
Malaysia
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18xx, Go and Puerto Rico Rocks!!!
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Go is a great game. Let's play Go!
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Hi Andrei,

Thanks for your reply and notes, especially "Resources are more of a bonus than a goal, in contrast with food and cubes, which are important and players will fight over them. As a consequence trading seems like a tacked-on mechanic, something to justify gathering all the resource you can't use for anything else.". This will be great concern for us.

Hi Curt,

I think I may have misrepresented. We do not dislike luck or randomness so long as it can be systematically controlled. For example, we love to play poker but really dislike Risk (although one can argue that over a big number of rolls, the "luck" factor will even out etc.)

After reading your comments, I think SoE will be the one we are looking for.
 
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Jacob Lee
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I haven't played SoE, but I can tell you I would not want to play RoE with five players. I like Rise of Empires a lot, but I think there is more emphasis on destroying than building. The time length with three is longer than I would like even though I've enjoyed every session.
 
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Orin Bishop
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Quote:
losing cubes (population) at the end of an age makes little sense thematically speaking

I think this is intended to simulate the progression of military technology over the eras and/or the need to train new soldiers. It would be a bit silly if you could amass a big army in 500 B.C. and have it still be effective in 1900 A.D.
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