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Subject: Empty City Marker rss

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Richard Hirschman
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If a cube is delivered to a city that has an empty city marker on it, I assume the empty city marker is then removed from that city. Correct?
Thanks.
Richard
 
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Jeffery Qualey
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Delivered cubes are immediately removed from the board. The empty city remains empty.
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Richard Hirschman
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Jeff,
Thanks. Sorry about my confusion as a newbie trying to absorb all the rules and subtleties before playing the game.

1) Perhaps I am still confused but how about this situation. If a City Growth card is used, can two random goods cubes be placed in a city that has an empty city marker?

2) If the answer to 1) above is yes, is the empty city marker then removed from that city and thus no longer counts toward the end the game condition?

Thanks again.
Richard
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rich10 wrote:
Jeff,
Thanks. Sorry about my confusion as a newbie trying to absorb all the rules and subtleties before playing the game.

1) Perhaps I am still confused but how about this situation. If a City Growth card is used, can two random goods cubes be placed in a city that has an empty city marker?

2) If the answer to 1) above is yes, is the empty city marker then removed from that city and thus no longer counts toward the end the game condition?

Thanks again.
Richard

1) Yes.
2) Yes.
Caveat: If the end game has already been triggered, adding cubes to a empty city after that cannot change it.
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Jeffery Qualey
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As Jason indicated, yes, and yes.

Urbanizing/City Growth is one of the only options for keeping the game from ending.
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Ben James
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Pepsi4Me2 wrote:
As Jason indicated, yes, and yes.

Urbanizing/City Growth is one of the only options for keeping the game from ending.


City Growth can certainly prolong the game and keep it from ending (assuming the final empty city marker hasn't already been placed) by actually removing empty city markers by adding cubes to existing cities. But Urbanizing doesn't have this effect. Urbanizing has no effect on the number of empty city markers because urbanizing changes a gray "Town" into a colored "City". Towns do not receive empty city markers until they've been Urbanized into a City and then emptied.

Although practically Urbanizing does prolong the game potentially by providing alternative cubes to deliver instead of delivering the last cube from another city. But this prolonging is indirect.
 
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bwjames wrote:
Pepsi4Me2 wrote:
As Jason indicated, yes, and yes.

Urbanizing/City Growth is one of the only options for keeping the game from ending.

City Growth can certainly prolong the game and keep it from ending (assuming the final empty city marker hasn't already been placed) by actually removing empty city markers by adding cubes to existing cities. But Urbanizing doesn't have this effect. Urbanizing has no effect on the number of empty city markers because urbanizing changes a gray "Town" into a colored "City". Towns do not receive empty city markers until they've been Urbanized into a City and then emptied.

Although practically Urbanizing does prolong the game potentially by providing alternative cubes to deliver instead of delivering the last cube from another city. But this prolonging is indirect.
Unless Railways of the World specifically changed this, Urbanizing a city also adds 2 random cubes to the city.

RRT Rules wrote:
URBANIZE - The active player takes one available New City tile from the pile next to the board and places it on any gray city hex. Two random goods cubes are drawn from the goods bag and added to any other goods cubes already on the city. If the city was empty, remove the empty city marker and replace it with the new goods cubes. The cost to Urbanize is $10,000.
Ack.. wait I think I read one part wrong, you said:

bwjames wrote:
Towns do not receive empty city markers until they've been Urbanized into a City and then emptied.
Is it your opinion that a gray city will not receive an empty city marker if it has no cubes?? This interpretation is not supported by the rules. The rules don't even refer the gray cities as "towns".
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Sheldon Morris
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bwjames wrote:
City Growth can certainly prolong the game and keep it from ending (assuming the final empty city marker hasn't already been placed) by actually removing empty city markers by adding cubes to existing cities. But Urbanizing doesn't have this effect. Urbanizing has no effect on the number of empty city markers because urbanizing changes a gray "Town" into a colored "City". Towns do not receive empty city markers until they've been Urbanized into a City and then emptied.

This made me re-check the rulebook, making me think we were playing incorrectly!

But after I looked in the rules, I think you are wrong here. My book refers to them as a "gray city" and "small city". The growth from "New City Tiles" "means that the city changes from gray to a new color". This makes me quite confident that empty city makers are placed on gray cities as well as colored cities.
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Ben James
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spearjr wrote:
bwjames wrote:
Pepsi4Me2 wrote:
As Jason indicated, yes, and yes.

Urbanizing/City Growth is one of the only options for keeping the game from ending.

City Growth can certainly prolong the game and keep it from ending (assuming the final empty city marker hasn't already been placed) by actually removing empty city markers by adding cubes to existing cities. But Urbanizing doesn't have this effect. Urbanizing has no effect on the number of empty city markers because urbanizing changes a gray "Town" into a colored "City". Towns do not receive empty city markers until they've been Urbanized into a City and then emptied.

Although practically Urbanizing does prolong the game potentially by providing alternative cubes to deliver instead of delivering the last cube from another city. But this prolonging is indirect.
Unless Railways of the World specifically changed this, Urbanizing a city also adds 2 random cubes to the city.

RRT Rules wrote:
URBANIZE - The active player takes one available New City tile from the pile next to the board and places it on any gray city hex. Two random goods cubes are drawn from the goods bag and added to any other goods cubes already on the city. If the city was empty, remove the empty city marker and replace it with the new goods cubes. The cost to Urbanize is $10,000.
Ack.. wait I think I read one part wrong, you said:

bwjames wrote:
Towns do not receive empty city markers until they've been Urbanized into a City and then emptied.
Is it your opinion that a gray city will not receive an empty city marker if it has no cubes?? This interpretation is not supported by the rules. The rules don't even refer the gray cities as "towns".


Jason and Sheldon. I do believe you are correct. I have always taken for granted that the existence of "New City" tiles implied that a city did not previously exist. Perhaps had I found this thread previously I would have not been led astray: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2570787#2570787. I've been playing this wrong from the beginning. I'm not sure where I got the "town" nomenclature from. Perhaps it was from another thread, but I think I will defer to you on this one.

Thanks for pulling me back onto the straight path!
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Sheldon Morris
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Ben, that could make for an interesting variant though.
 
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Ben James
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Hugin wrote:
Ben, that could make for an interesting variant though. :what:


It certainly makes for a long variant. I told my wife about this last night, and she might actually try the Eastern U.S. Map again. The length of the U.S. Map game might actually be manegable for those with shorter attention spans again.

Also, this rule made the Mexico map excruciating because the game often couldn't end until somebody delivered that last red cube 6 or 7 links across the board just in an attempt to empty another city. This would often force somebody to upgrade (on a map that otherwise may not reach level 6 or 7) just to end the game.

This will definitely be an improvement on the Mexico map playing without this "variant". As for the Eastern U.S. Map, it certainly works, but without a doubt lengthens the game.
 
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Sheldon Morris
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bwjames wrote:
Hugin wrote:
Ben, that could make for an interesting variant though.


It certainly makes for a long variant.

Well, I'd imagine you'd have to adjust the required number of empty cities required for the end game though.
 
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Joe Mucchiello
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bwjames wrote:
I'm not sure where I got the "town" nomenclature from. Perhaps it was from another thread, but I think I will defer to you on this one.

Steam perhaps.
 
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