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Subject: Player's can't buy from the same stall. rss

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kevin long
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This has been part of the confusion with market stalls so felt it needed its own post for quick finding.

It only takes one worker to close a stall. It can either close it or it can buy a paint tile. In either case the stall is closed and all tiles removed. So 2 players can never buy from the same stall.

The rule book is excellent and like any game there will always be some confusion - so this is not a knock against the game!


OOPS - error corrected
 
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KAS
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treece keenes wrote:
So no - you can't buy from the same stall in the same stall.



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Steve Duff
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kneumann wrote:
treece keenes wrote:
So no - you can't buy from the same stall in the same stall.





It was clearer in the original German. laugh
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Doug Palmer
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clear as mud!

We played this over the weekend. And I agree, the rules aren't very clear when it comes to the stalls. What made sense to us, and how we played was thusly:

> Each player can allocate 0-3 workers to go to the market stalls

> A worker can either:
a) take a tile from any stall
b) close down a stall from which they have already taken a tile

We didn't read the rules such that each player was limited to which stall that they were allowed to buy from. Rather, the first player could buy from as many stalls as he had workers. The next player could then buy similarly, etc....

In lieu of buying a tile in a market, if a player had already purchased a tile from a stall, they could allocate a worker to close that stall.

we played that way and it worked just fine for us.
 
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Dan Blum
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Scammer wrote:
clear as mud!

We played this over the weekend. And I agree, the rules aren't very clear when it comes to the stalls. What made sense to us, and how we played was thusly:

> Each player can allocate 0-3 workers to go to the market stalls

> A worker can either:
a) take a tile from any stall
b) close down a stall from which they have already taken a tile

We didn't read the rules such that each player was limited to which stall that they were allowed to buy from. Rather, the first player could buy from as many stalls as he had workers. The next player could then buy similarly, etc....

In lieu of buying a tile in a market, if a player had already purchased a tile from a stall, they could allocate a worker to close that stall.

we played that way and it worked just fine for us.


This is incorrect. I think the rules are resaonably clear here (the emphasis is mine, though):

Quote:
First the active player selects one of the available market
booths and then decides to perform one of the two following actions:
• Buy paints or • Close down market booth

Each of the player’s apprentices deployed at the “market” column may buy 1 market tile from the selected booth. Each tile can be bought only once. The purchase price depends on the player’s previously chosen get up time.
The player takes the paint pieces shown on the tile they just bought from the common supply and hides them behind their large screen.
Having finished all their purchases at the selected booth the player returns all tiles of this booth to the linen bag.
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Doug Palmer
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Quote:


This is incorrect. I think the rules are resaonably clear here (the emphasis is mine, though):

First the active player selects one of the available market
booths and then decides to perform one of the two following actions:
• Buy paints or • Close down market booth

Each of the player’s apprentices deployed at the “market” column may buy 1 market tile from the selected booth. Each tile can be bought only once. The purchase price depends on the player’s previously chosen get up time.
The player takes the paint pieces shown on the tile they just bought from the common supply and hides them behind their large screen.
Having finished all their purchases at the selected booth the player returns all tiles of this booth to the linen bag.


And it's your emphasis that we quibbled about.

I have 3 apprentices deployed to the market. Is each apprentice acting on his own?

Apprentice #1 (of 3) of mine heads to market and buys only 1 tile (per the instructions) from the booth #2 (the booth that apprentice #1 selected). Apprentice #2 (of 3) heads to booth #1 and buys 1 tile. Lastly, Apprentice #3 (of 3) has the option of closing down either booth #2 or booth #1 as I have already had apprentices purchase from those booths this turn. Or, Apprentice #3 can purchase another tile, from a booth that the apprentice selects.

What is the text about closing down the booth? I thought that there was something about closing down a booth only at a booth where a previously purchased tile was made (I'm going from memory here).
 
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KAS
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Based on my understanding, this is how we have played:

If the active player has assigned at least one worker to the market, he first picks one stall with paint tiles still in it and can then either (a) shut that stall down without buying any tiles or (b) buy one tile within that stall for each worker assigned to the market and then shut down that stall.

This results in every player having the ability to always purchase tiles from at least one stall in the market.
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Dan Blum
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Quote:
I have 3 apprentices deployed to the market. Is each apprentice acting on his own?


There is absolutely nothing in the rules that suggests that. It says the player picks ONE booth to do something at. In particular, the sentence

Quote:
Each of the player’s apprentices deployed at the “market” column may buy 1 market tile from the selected booth.


cannot be read the way you want. To get that reading, it would have to say something like "Each of the player's apprentices deployed at the "market" column may select a booth and buy 1 market tile from it."

Quote:
What is the text about closing down the booth?


Here is the entire market section of the rules:

Quote:
First the active player selects one of the available market booths and then decides to perform one of the two following actions:
• Buy paints or • Close down market booth

Buy paints
Each of the player’s apprentices deployed at the “market”
column may buy 1 market tile from the selected booth. Each tile can be bought only once. The purchase price depends on the player’s previously chosen get up time.
The player takes the paint pieces shown on the tile they just bought from the common supply and hides them behind their large screen.
Having finished all their purchases at the selected booth the player returns all tiles of this booth to the linen bag.

Close down market booth
If the active player deployed at least 1 of their apprentices at the “market” column they may forfeit buying paints and close down the selected booth instead. All tiles of this booth are returned to the linen bag. This counts as a free action.


Note, again, that there is nothing here that suggests that the player gets to select a booth for each apprentice. They select a booth, then do something there.
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Doug Palmer
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So you're saying that each player must allocate all apprentices to one specific booth? Do all of their buying there, close down if they like, then the next player performs their actions at one selected booth?

I'll buy that interpretation (if the game ever gets to the table again). But the instructions could have been better written to demonstrate that fact. Even an example in the rules would have prevented any confusion.

I also think that it neuters the closing of a booth action a bit.
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R. N. Dominick
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Someone who buys tiles does not have to close the booth -- the booth automatically closes after they buy paint! ("...the player returns all tiles of this booth to the linen bag.")

Closing a booth is only for when you don't buy any paint at all.
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J Cale
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Overall, I really like this mechanic.
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Robert Zurfluh
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The player chooses a booth. Then if you have 1, 2, or 3 apprentices, you can buy 1, 2, or 3 paints from that particular booth - or close it down before buying - or do a combination.

The booth does not close down after let's say player 1 with one apprentice buys one paint from one booth, does it?

Also, if I go first to the market and I have 3 apprentices, it does not seem right that I could buy a paint from booth 1, then my second apprentice closes booth 2, and the third apprentice closes booth 3.

I'll look in the German rules what is says now
 
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Robert Zurfluh
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:


It was clearer in the original German. laugh


Yes, what he said.

So, for your entire turn, all your apprentices buy from the same market, which closes afterwards. This is better this way

Which makes me wonder when would someone close down a market without buying first. This has to be a very calculated move very late in the game when one has to consider what colors are needed at the altar, $$$ and VP in the end.
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Jon Ben
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Noaceyet wrote:
UnknownParkerBrother wrote:


It was clearer in the original German. laugh


Yes, what he said.

So, for your entire turn, all your apprentices buy from the same market, which closes afterwards. This is better this way

Which makes me wonder when would someone close down a market without buying first. This has to be a very calculated move very late in the game when one has to consider what colors are needed at the altar, $$$ and VP in the end.


First I agree with Dan Blum above that the rules are very clear, if you are willing to read them correctly. I also think that Doug Palmer has a good point about the examples in these rules not being as useful as they could be.

To answer Robert Zurfluh's question. You would want to close a booth if the available paints were not what you had hoped for. That is, people before you took the only booth(s) you were interested in and instead of wasting money to buy a tile you don't really want you can shut down a booth for free.

You may also be going first with paint tiles costing 4 or 3, so instead of spending a lot for a tile you can still get some utility from the action by depriving the other players.

Although in general I agree that paint is good and usually you would want to buy some.

It does seem like a bit of odd action to me. With it you can pretty much guarantee that the first player is going to take one booth out of play, either the one they want to buy from, or the one they think is most valuable to others.

I guess the designers liked the idea of each player taking a booth out of play, it certainly punishes the last player to wake up. Perhaps they wanted to keep that position devalued, it would be a shame if they didn't end up with the shittiest booth.
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Lutz Pietschker
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
It was clearer in the original German.

Not that clear. I had exactly the same question. I think Noaceyet's interpretation is correct.
 
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Steve Duff
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I was making a joke about Kevin having posted his comment in German, but it was too subtle for anyone to get.
 
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Tim Loomis
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If the option to close a booth is confusing, you can think of it this way ...

When you go to the market you will choose exactly one booth, regardless of how many apprentices selected this action. When you are finished, the booth will always close. You can buy a number of tiles from this booth up to the number of apprentices that went to the market. So if no apprentices buy a tile, you spend nothing and you simply close the booth.

(The logic behind the rule is similar to acquiring a captain for free in Vasco da Gama)
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jerod garland
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You might also close down a market without buying if you are just flat broke. At least you can take out some options for other people. I just hope you have some guys at the studio getting paid!
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