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Dominion: Seaside» Forums » Rules

Subject: Gold coins---do they at end of game as gold? rss

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Don Sikes
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This would seem obvious that at the end of the game, the gold coins on the pirate ship would be counted as gold along with your treasure cards.

But for the life of me, I can't find it in the rules, whether it is or isn't counted.

Is it? Thanks.
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David desJardins
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Fardog wrote:
This would seem obvious that at the end of the game, the gold coins on the pirate ship would be counted as gold along with your treasure cards.


Why are you counting your gold or your treasure cards? Who cares how much gold you have?
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Ryan Metzler
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Fardog wrote:
This would seem obvious that at the end of the game, the gold coins on the pirate ship would be counted as gold along with your treasure cards.


Why are you counting your gold or your treasure cards? Who cares how much gold you have?


You took the words out of my mouth...
 
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Jeff Wolfe
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Pirate ship tokens and treasure are worth the same at the end of the game: zero.

At the end of the game, only Victory Points count.
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Don Sikes
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whistle

Whoops---My wife and I have been playing this wrong for 4 months, adding up the Victory cards AND the Treasure Cards at the end of the game. cry

Totally humiliated.
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Brian Kassler
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If there is a tie, and you really feel the need to break it, the instructions say to count the treasure in each deck and whoever has the most, wins.

Personally, I think a tie is a great way to end the game. However, I would not think that the gold coins count towards that total. Of course, you could always house rule it...
 
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Timothy Hunt
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TybaltGray wrote:
If there is a tie, and you really feel the need to break it, the instructions say to count the treasure in each deck and whoever has the most, wins.


No, they don't. If there's a tie, the player who had fewer turns wins. If there's still a tie, it's a tie.
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Roberta Yang
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Note that, if the Treasure in your deck ever did need to be counted, such as for a hypothetical future Treasure!Vineyard card, the Coin Tokens would almost certainly not count (unless the Victory card in question had bizarre wording that explicitly permitted them).
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Eric Selander
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Using Treasure as a tie-breaker seems an awful idea. It's not in any rules I've read. Why would having more Treasure be considered an achievement? I find it most challenging to win with fewer coins, such as finishing with nothing but a handful of coppers. That's fun!
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Steven Metzger
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TybaltGray wrote:
The instructions say to count the treasure in each deck and whoever has the most, wins.
Pretty much the biggest flat-out lie I've read on these here forums.
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J
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While counting the treasure in a deck is utter BS I've heard that second tie breaker is more cards in deck. A friend of mine says he lost during a tournament because of it.

Gold coins = gold cards would really only matter (currently) for gardens if it were true... but it's not.
 
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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allstar64 wrote:
While counting the treasure in a deck is utter BS I've heard that second tie breaker is more cards in deck. A friend of mine says he lost during a tournament because of it.

Gold coins = gold cards would really only matter (currently) for gardens if it were true... but it's not.


Yes, there is nothing in the rules that state that, and the rule that was used in your friend's tournament is a poor rule, as it inhibits strategies inherent in the game. I wish there were official tournament rules but none have been issued yet.
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David desJardins
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jschlickbernd wrote:
the rule that was used in your friend's tournament is a poor rule, as it inhibits strategies inherent in the game.


I really don't think there is any strategy that would be "inhibited" by a tiebreaker based on the size of your deck, or amount of treasure, or just about anything else. Ties aren't common enough to cause people to change their strategy just in order to maximize a tiebreaker.
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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DaviddesJ wrote:
jschlickbernd wrote:
the rule that was used in your friend's tournament is a poor rule, as it inhibits strategies inherent in the game.


I really don't think there is any strategy that would be "inhibited" by a tiebreaker based on the size of your deck, or amount of treasure, or just about anything else. Ties aren't common enough to cause people to change their strategy just in order to maximize a tiebreaker.


How do you know how common ties are? And in a tournament situation with prizes on the line, breaking a tie could be important.
 
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David desJardins
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jschlickbernd wrote:
How do you know how common ties are?


By playing 100+ games and only seeing a couple handful of them.
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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DaviddesJ wrote:
jschlickbernd wrote:
How do you know how common ties are?


By playing 100+ games and only seeing a couple of them.


But that's your experience yes? There's no way for anyone to know how common ties actually are.
 
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David desJardins
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jschlickbernd wrote:
But that's your experience yes? There's no way for anyone to know how common ties actually are.


If I see a field of cows, and they all look white, then sure, I might be looking at one side and the cows might all be brown on the other side. But it's not the way to bet. There's no reason I can see why ties would be more common with other groups than in the games that I play.
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Myke Madsen
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I can check on the exact numbers later but I think we see ties much more frequently than twice in 100 games.

Having said that, I agree with the larger point that it doesn't make sense to game-plan for a tiebreaker.
 
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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HappyProle wrote:
I can check on the exact numbers later but I think we see ties much more frequently than twice in 100 games.

Having said that, I agree with the larger point that it doesn't make sense to game-plan for a tiebreaker.


I was specifically discussing a tournament situation where you could have many participants (our tournament at Strategicon had over 100) and where a tie could easily happen in the tournament and the organizers would need a way to resolve it. Our tournament not only had over 100 players but also lasted three rounds, meaning that a lot of games were played at that time. Ties will happen in this environment. Deciding that whoever has the most cards wins is not a reasonable way to decide a tie for this game. I would love to hear ideas on how to resolve this instead.

It's a different discussion on whether or not you can play for a tie.
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David desJardins
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jschlickbernd wrote:
Deciding that whoever has the most cards wins is not a reasonable way to decide a tie for this game.


Why not? You just need some arbitary tiebreak, this is as good as any other arbitrary choice.

I think it's still a substantial advantage to go first, so I'd just break the ties in favor of players later in turn order, though.
 
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Sacha Spinks
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Can't we just 'rejoice in the shared victory' ? whistle
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J
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In a tournament setting no.

Like I said I didn't get the full story. He just told me that at the end they had the same number of points and turns so the next thing the officials fell back on was what they could find as the next tie breaker in this case number of cards in deck.

He wasn't that bummed out for 2 reasons.

1. The prize was seaside which he owned already.
2. His much younger opponent didn't own it and she was really happy to win the tournament and a copy of the game.
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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DaviddesJ wrote:
jschlickbernd wrote:
Deciding that whoever has the most cards wins is not a reasonable way to decide a tie for this game.


Why not? You just need some arbitary tiebreak, this is as good as any other arbitrary choice.

I think it's still a substantial advantage to go first, so I'd just break the ties in favor of players later in turn order, though.


IF (and that's a big IF) there is a way to play for a tie THEN the rules of how to resolve that tie would be important. I don't like arbitrary rules when money is on the line (as it was in the Strategicon tournament I was referring to...the money was dealer dollars you could exchange for credit in the Dealer room).
 
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Eric Selander
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DaviddesJ wrote:
You just need some arbitary tiebreak, this is as good as any other arbitrary choice.


Tiebreakers are not supposed to be arbitrary. They need to be a reflection of superior gameplay. The question is not whether or not players would adjust their strategies based on a designated tiebreaker, it's whether or not the tiebreaker would reward the better player. Building a larger deck or more treasure doesn't indicate superior play at all. If you want an arbitrary tiebreaker, flip a coin. In the case of Dominion, if there is no tertiary measure of better play, perhaps there could be some "overtime" play in a tournament setting.
I may like your idea of rewarding the player later in turn order, but he does have the advantage of seeing what other players choose, and when non-Province piles do not run out, he is not at any disadvantage that I can see.
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David desJardins
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grithog wrote:
Tiebreakers are not supposed to be arbitrary. They need to be a reflection of superior gameplay.


If you make an arbitrary tiebreak before the game, and you tell people what it is, then they can aim for it. And so the player who does better on the tiebreak criterion has, by definition, exhibited superior gameplay. Maybe he aimed for a larger deck because the tiebreak was more cards in deck. Good for him.
 
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