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Agricola: Farmers of the Moor» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Wooden Crane Overpowered? rss

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Last match I played, my friend played the wooden crane:

http://play-agricola.com/Agricola/Images/iminorwoodencrane.j...

so he nabs a square with 2 stone on it, pays one food, and takes home 4 stone!? this seems a bit overpowered. he didn't even play a very good game but deprived the rest of the board of stone and built every major he could. his end board looked terrible but he had so many points in majors it beat my perfect board (i'm so modest ) we even blocked him on wood at the end so he had no pastures leaving like 7 open spaces on his board :O

and its not even an occupation its an improvement...
 
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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mekane84 wrote:
and its not even an occupation its an improvement...


You know, I'd hate to be occupied as a Wooden Crane...
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Geoff Burkman
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mekane84 wrote:
Last match I played, my friend played the wooden crane:

http://play-agricola.com/Agricola/Images/iminorwoodencrane.j...

so he nabs a square with 2 stone on it, pays one food, and takes home 4 stone!? this seems a bit overpowered. he didn't even play a very good game but deprived the rest of the board of stone and built every major he could. his end board looked terrible but he had so many points in majors it beat my perfect board (i'm so modest ) we even blocked him on wood at the end so he had no pastures leaving like 7 open spaces on his board :O

and its not even an occupation its an improvement...


Anything that boosts stone acquisition is assuredly going to be stronger in "FotM" than in the base game, no question. I ask, however, how is the Wooden Crane any more overpowering than in the base game?

You also didn't say how many players are in the game. This makes a difference. You also didn't say if you were playing Level 2 or 3, which also makes a difference.

You did, however, learn the danger of letting an opponent dominate acquisition of Majors, so that's a good thing.

P.S. There is no such thing as a "perfect board" in Agricola. There is only the winning board.
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MisterG wrote:
mekane84 wrote:
Last match I played, my friend played the wooden crane:

http://play-agricola.com/Agricola/Images/iminorwoodencrane.j...

so he nabs a square with 2 stone on it, pays one food, and takes home 4 stone!? this seems a bit overpowered. he didn't even play a very good game but deprived the rest of the board of stone and built every major he could. his end board looked terrible but he had so many points in majors it beat my perfect board (i'm so modest ) we even blocked him on wood at the end so he had no pastures leaving like 7 open spaces on his board :O

and its not even an occupation its an improvement...


Anything that boosts stone acquisition is assuredly going to be stronger in "FotM" than in the base game, no question. I ask, however, how is the Wooden Crane any more overpowering than in the base game?

You also didn't say how many players are in the game. This makes a difference. You also didn't say if you were playing Level 2 or 3, which also makes a difference.

You did, however, learn the danger of letting an opponent dominate acquisition of Majors, so that's a good thing.

P.S. There is no such thing as a "perfect board" in Agricola. There is only the winning board.


It seems like you answered your own first question?

It was a 3 player game at level 3. I do realize the value of Majors in this new expansion, but it was still hard to stop him with how much stone he was getting. is there a better minor improvement in the game!? I figure it must have netted him about 8 stone. Ill have to do some analysis on how much each stone is worth in VPs on average, but I'm guessing its a pretty high number in this new expansion.
 
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Mike T
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mekane84 wrote:

is there a better minor improvement in the game!? I figure it must have netted him about 8 stone. Ill have to do some analysis on how much each stone is worth in VPs on average, but I'm guessing its a pretty high number in this new expansion.


There are several EIK cards that give a similar effect.

Quarry can give the most stone, but is hard to play.

Stone Tongs isn't quite as powerful as the Crane, but it is cheaper.

Stone Cart can pretty easily give you 6 stone over the course of the game.

Social Climber can easily give 6 stone.

Stone Carrier or Pieceworker could give a heck of a lot of stone in a 4p game.

Stone Cutter is far more powerful, and should be banned from FotM.

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smcmike wrote:
mekane84 wrote:

is there a better minor improvement in the game!? I figure it must have netted him about 8 stone. Ill have to do some analysis on how much each stone is worth in VPs on average, but I'm guessing its a pretty high number in this new expansion.


There are several EIK cards that give a similar effect.

Quarry can give the most stone, but is hard to play.

Stone Tongs isn't quite as powerful as the Crane, but it is cheaper.

Stone Cart can pretty easily give you 6 stone over the course of the game.

Social Climber can easily give 6 stone.

Stone Carrier or Pieceworker could give a heck of a lot of stone in a 4p game.

Stone Cutter is far more powerful, and should be banned from FotM.



I guess they are pretty similar, although I still think wooden crane is the best of the bunch. Why do u say stone cutter is far more powerful? I can see for the improvements that cost 1 stone, it saves you the action of picking the stone before you buy it, and the peat charcoal kiln is a pretty dang good early buy. But I think you'll end up getting even more stone from wooden crane, and in our 3 player games its hard to get out early occupations.
 
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Geoff Burkman
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mekane84 wrote:


It seems like you answered your own first question?


Kinda did, didn't I? I suppose I should have qualified that by saying that the Wooden Crane is stronger, but not what I would call "overpowering." First, it's useless until the first Stone space appears (and I'm guessing it showed early in your game), since it doesn't apply (in the 3-player game) to the "Take one Building Resource of your choice" space (nor to the RSf/RSW spots in 4- and 5-player games).

Quote:
It was a 3 player game at level 3.


I should have realized it was Level 3, since we're talking about a base game Minor.

Quote:
I do realize the value of Majors in this new expansion, but it was still hard to stop him with how much stone he was getting.


Like the little guy said, "There is no try, there is only do." Or words to that effect. In a situation like it, it behooves the opposition to block MIMI more often (when possible) and/or Clandestine Work (when possible) and/or interdict the Stone spaces more frequently. Close attention to the button is often necessary to allow this. It's a wiggly game, to steal a phrase from Devo.

Quote:
...is there a better minor improvement in the game!? I figure it must have netted him about 8 stone. Ill have to do some analysis on how much each stone is worth in VPs on average, but I'm guessing its a pretty high number in this new expansion.


Far as I'm concerned, Stone generally translates to 1VP each, regardless of what version is being played.

Mike has listed a number of other Ocks/Minors that boost stone acquisition. There are others as well (the Stone Wagon and the Stone Quarry in "FotM" spring to mind, as well as Minors like Hardware Store, Village Shop, and Peat Boat); point being the Wooden Crane is no anomaly. It just one of those irritating Minors in an opponent's hand that you need to deal with properly, and if it's in your hand, exploit it to the best of your ability. Apparently, your opponent in this case did just that and the other two of you failed to counter him/her effectively.

But, no, I'd say the card is strong, but not nearly as strong as, say, the vicious Stonecutter, which, as Mike concurs, should simply be banished from "FotM" games.
 
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Mike T
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Wooden Crane costs 3 wood, costs food and actions to use properly, and may not do anything at all until Round 7.

The Stone Cutter, on the other hand, completely eliminates the stone cost of no less than ten major improvements. TEN!!! With him, you can go through the game without ever using an action on a stone space, and buy almost every major improvement. And he can get started in Round 1!
 
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you sold me, stone cutter is hereby banned in my future games!
 
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We have house-ruled the stone cutter as follows:


Add requirement: May not be played before the first 1 stone space is reveled.

Change function: Allows a player to substitute 1 food for 1 stone for any room addition, renovation, or improvement purchase.

This seems to make the card much more reasonable.
 
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