Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
23 Posts

Cosmic Encounter» Forums » Variants

Subject: Power Of The Day -- Bushwhacker rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Gerald Katz
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BUSHWHACKER Destiny/Beginner

Keeps Target Secret

You have the power to ambush. As offensive player, when you flip the destiny pile use this power to keep the card hidden. All other players must then select an encounter card which they will play (if possible) during the encounter. Any player without encounter cards must draw a new hand. Once you reveal the defensive player, all others must then discard the card they chose.

HISTORY: The Bushwhackers have excelled in striking out at opponents when they least expect it. These surprise tactics have allowed for numerous conquests as their opponents cannot effectively coordinate their plans with those who foolishly choose to help them.

Do Not Use With Dictator or Fate

FLARE

Destiny
Wild: As offensive player, you may force all other players to play an encounter card before you flip the destiny pile. When the defensive player is determined, all other players return their cards to their hands.

Destiny
Super: You may take any or all of the discarded cards.

Commentary: This is a rules power from Matt Stone's set. An important clarification needs to be made. For whomever is the defensive player, the card selected is still a part of his hand in every way. He still must play it in Planning, but if it is somehow removed from his hand before then the player is then free to play any card as normal.

The effect of the power is a good one. Other players lose efficiency. They must decide to risk a good card only to have it wasted or risk a bad card only to find they have to defend with it. An issue with this power is that it's an offensive player power only, ergo you are at one less power in the game for a good portion of it. For the Wild Flare, the selected defensive player does not pick up his card. He keeps it face down to play as his encounter card.

Gerald Katz
Don't forget to tip the Butler!

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cameron McKenzie
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like this one.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mi Myma
United States
Fountain Valley
California
flag msg tools
Why is there no Word Games Forum or Subdomain?
badge
There should be a Word Games Subdomain, or at least a Word Games Forum!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You keep using the phrase "rules power". What does this mean? What other kinds of powers are there?

I've seen the Bushwhacker before, and it's not bad. In fact, this version of it is better than previous ones I've seen. However it needs to be clarified that the defensive player is then revealed once all the other players have chosen their encounter cards, and then the challenge proceeds normally.

In previous versions, the defensive player isn't revealed until the challenge is to be resolved, which meant that you can't have allies in the encounter at all, which removes a very important part of the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Toomai Glittershine
Canada
flag msg tools
Phil Fleischmann wrote:
You keep using the phrase "rules power". What does this mean? What other kinds of powers are there?
The Warp (the massive CE index) groups aliens into certain categories: Rules (changes/adds rules), Resource (more cards/more ships), Combat (aids in winning encounters), and Meta (uses other powers). It's partly arbitrary but somewhat useful.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mar hawkman
msg tools
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, most are rules, but the categories work most of the time.

I have one big question here: Is Bushwhacker able to have offensive allies?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerald Katz
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
marhawkman wrote:
Yeah, most are rules, but the categories work most of the time.

I have one big question here: Is Bushwhacker able to have offensive allies?


Yes. Why wouldn't he? So can the defensive player. The defensive player was just forced to play his card before he could ask.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the question gets asked because it could seem like playing the card facedown accelerated things to the Planning phase. It might be helpful if the text made it clear that the cards are being played early.

In fact, it's a problem that the text doesn't say where the cards are. I assumed they were played onto the table, and was surprised to learn that you consider them still part of the players' hands; how does that even work? Does everyone just "mentally" select a card and it's all on the honor system? That doesn't really work. Most other effects that require cards to be selected for a special purpose usually specify that they be "set aside" to keep the gameplay clean and allow appropriate verifications. I'm still kind of baffled that these cards are supposed to be part of the hand, considering that (in most cases) none of them are going to stay there.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerald Katz
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bushwhacker also has done the "impossible". It is a power that puts Oracle in its place. Perhaps Bushwhacker needs a Do Not Use With Oracle restriction. While it doesn't physically stop Oracle from functioning since Bushwhacker can still reveal his card during Planning, it does stop the spirit of Oracle's power.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Hollinsworth
United States
Cranston
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This power could be used with the FFG version of Dictator in the game. Just have him give you the card face down and proceed with the power. Dictator could throw off a useless card if he doesn't choose himself or play a strong one if he does, but hey, CE is all about interactions, isn't it?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerald Katz
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The phase is Destiny, so the phase icon indicates when this is happening. The card can remain on the table or go back into the defensive player's hand, but then you're on the honor system to play it. The words "(if possible)" is what signifies it's still part of defensive player's hand. That allows the possibility the defensive player can get rid of it if he can.

Also, powers I learned from Matt Stone were created literally decades before Fantasy Flight published Cosmic Encounter. Fantasy Flight "dumbed down" the game, not that that's a bad thing or an insult. Minutae details aren't prevalent in his set unless it's a convoluted weird complex power of a type that gives the Dukester hissyfits . Such details fall generally into "common sense". His set is Eon, which doesn't even use timing icons.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mi Myma
United States
Fountain Valley
California
flag msg tools
Why is there no Word Games Forum or Subdomain?
badge
There should be a Word Games Subdomain, or at least a Word Games Forum!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Let me see if I understand correctly: Since these cards are still part of the players' hands, when the Philanthropist is revealed as the Defensive Player, he can give away his face down card, and then play another for the encounter.

If the card came from the Miser's hoard, he doesn't have to discard it if he's not the Defensive Player, since nothing can force him to lose a card from his hoard.

The Mutant could draw these cards from the other players to fill up his hand.


If the Trader is the defensive player, he can trade his entire hand (including the face-down card) for the Bushwhacker's hand.

I also assume the Deuce's extra card does not have to be selected in advance.

The card is still in the Sniveler's hand for purposes of his power.

Does the Clone have to throw away his card if he's not the Defensive Player? If so, it pretty much neuters the Clone - he either risks having to throw away his good cards, or risks playing his bad cards.

Does the Boomerang interrupt the challenge in progress once it's revealed he's the defensive player? Can the Siren lure the Bushwhacker? If so, when does it happen? It seems the Insect can't copy the Bushwhacker's power at all. The Seeker can't ask a question until it's too late. How does the Doppelganger work when Bushwhacker starts his challenge?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerald Katz
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Phil Fleischmann wrote:
Let me see if I understand correctly: Since these cards are still part of the players' hands, when the Philanthropist is revealed as the Defensive Player, he can give away his face down card, and then play another for the encounter.

Yes.

If the card came from the Miser's hoard, he doesn't have to discard it if he's not the Defensive Player, since nothing can force him to lose a card from his hoard.

Yes

The Mutant could draw these cards from the other players to fill up his hand.

Mutant is a main player power, so he wouldn't get the chance. If he's the defender, he still has his bushwhacked card he must play. If he's not the defensive player, he's not using his power. However, if you are playing multi-powers and you are Bushwhacker/Mutant, you could end up taking the defensive player's bushwhacked card if you take cards from him.


If the Trader is the defensive player, he can trade his entire hand (including the face-down card) for the Bushwhacker's hand.

Yes

I also assume the Deuce's extra card does not have to be selected in advance.

Yes

The card is still in the Sniveler's hand for purposes of his power.

Yes

Does the Clone have to throw away his card if he's not the Defensive Player? If so, it pretty much neuters the Clone - he either risks having to throw away his good cards, or risks playing his bad cards.

It depends how ornery you want to be. Clone is supposed to be able to keep his card if he's not the defensive player despite this is not happening in the Resolution phase, but it is equally valid to say since Clone is not a main player his power doesn't come into play. This is one of those situations where the players just have to make a decision on what happens. This is one of those situations for which Cosmic Encounter is infamous - rules arguments!

Does the Boomerang interrupt the challenge in progress once it's revealed he's the defensive player?

Yes. When he attacks Bushwhacker, he can play his bushwhacked card as the offense, if he chooses, then play whatever he wants when Bushwhacker takes his normal encounter.

Can the Siren lure the Bushwhacker? If so, when does it happen?

Siren can lure regardless, but does the original defensive player keep or discard his card? Does Siren keep and must use his bushwhacked card or does he discard it because he wasn't the original defensive player then lures? This is another one of those infamous rules arguments the players will just have to answer for themselves.


It seems the Insect can't copy the Bushwhacker's power at all.

Correct. Insect also cannot copy Parasite, so tough luck on Insect.

The Seeker can't ask a question until it's too late.

Depends. He can still ask a question; he just can't change his encounter card accordingly. However, depending on the question he might learn something to decide to play a kicker or a flare or perhaps one of his allies could do something.

How does the Doppelganger work when Bushwhacker starts his challenge?


Doppelganger uses his power as normal during the Destiny phase instead of Planning. He uses his power before others choose their bushwhacked card.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hadsil wrote:
The card can remain on the table or go back into the defensive player's hand, but then you're on the honor system to play it.

So which is it? The power should tell us.

Quote:
Such details fall generally into "common sense". His set is Eon, which doesn't even use timing icons.

If the answers were common sense, I don't think we would be asking the questions and feeling confused about the power. ;-)

Maybe some of these powers would be better posted in the Eon CE forums? When we post in the FFG forums, there's an implicit expectation that what we're posting works with and is suitable to the current edition.

In answering Phil Fleischmann, hadsil wrote:
Does the Clone have to throw away his card if he's not the Defensive Player? If so, it pretty much neuters the Clone - he either risks having to throw away his good cards, or risks playing his bad cards.

It depends how ornery you want to be. Clone is supposed to be able to keep his card if he's not the defensive player despite this is not happening in the Resolution phase, but it is equally valid to say since Clone is not a main player his power doesn't come into play. This is one of those situations where the players just have to make a decision on what happens. This is one of those situations for which Cosmic Encounter is infamous - rules arguments!

Writing clean powers and tightening up the rules is what prevents that, which is what FFG has tried to do. I don't think the existence of prior rules arguments is a good excuse for creating new ones via powers with hidden effects that are explained in the commentary.

Clone loses his card — plain and simple. If you want it to work the other way, the power should say so. (To say that both interpretations are "equally valid" is only going to raise eyebrows, because it's simply not true.) The only indication anywhere that Clone would keep his card is that you've stated this is what you want — so just write it that way.

Quote:
Does Siren keep and must use his bushwhacked card or does he discard it because he wasn't the original defensive player then lures? This is another one of those infamous rules arguments the players will just have to answer for themselves.

Nah, I answer those kinds of questions by just playing a different power that is clear about how it's supposed to work! ;-)

Quote:
How does the Doppelganger work when Bushwhacker starts his challenge?

Doppelganger uses his power as normal during the Destiny phase instead of Planning. He uses his power before others choose their bushwhacked card.

That's also a leak; best to put it in the text.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mi Myma
United States
Fountain Valley
California
flag msg tools
Why is there no Word Games Forum or Subdomain?
badge
There should be a Word Games Subdomain, or at least a Word Games Forum!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with Bill. Rules arguments may be a traditional part of CE, but they're a bad tradition that should be ended.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerald Katz
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The way it's played in Matt Stone's set, the defender's bushwhacked card is returned to hand and you're on the honor system. I would prefer it remain on the table, but it's still part of your hand you can get rid of by some means you find available if you want.

It is impossible to note on a power card the consequences it may have to every other power or flare beforehand. Asking whether Clone gets to keep his card is a good question, but that is not the responsibility of the Bushwhacker power card to answer specifically for Clone. By the letter of the law Clone discards the card because he's not a main player. By the spirit of the law Clone keeps the card because Clone's power is to keep his encounter card when he plays one. Make an official ruling for your game and be done with it.

Perhaps the answer to the Siren question is to add Do Not Use With Siren to Bushwhacker because a solution does not otherwise present itself. That doesn't make Bushwhacker a terrible idea; it just means there's a rules conflict with Siren such that they can't be in the same game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hadsil wrote:
It is impossible to note on a power card the consequences it may have to every other power or flare beforehand.

Sure, but it is totally doable to refine a power to the point where most questions are answered and the remaining grey areas are mostly insignificant.

That's what game design is all about. Refining and refining until you arrive at a finished work that players you will never know or even hear from can understand it, but you've still preserved the essence of what you were trying to create.

hadsil wrote:
Asking whether Clone gets to keep his card is a good question, but that is not the responsibility of the Bushwhacker power card to answer specifically for Clone.

I agree. It's only the responsibility of Bushwhacker to address Clone if Bushwacker wants Clone to work differently than what the text says. That's my whole point.

hadsil wrote:
By the letter of the law Clone discards the card because he's not a main player. By the spirit of the law Clone keeps the card because Clone's power is to keep his encounter card when he plays one.

That's a matter of opinion, which I guess is why we're having the disagreement. Clone never played, revealed, or used his card; he only provisionally selected one. It's still in his hand, for pete's sake. His power wouldn't save him from Bushwhacker any more than it would save him from Hate (which has a similar effect on him).

It seems you want your homebrews to work in certain vaguely defined ways without having to write those certain ways on the cards. I'm guessing that in your play group that works out just fine because either (a) you make all the rulings on the fly and everyone is good with that or (b) your group thinks it's fun to interrupt the game for rules arguments. Not everyone plays that way.

Actual Cosmic game time is precious to me. I'm damned lucky if I get to play once every month or two. NO WAY do I want to waste that precious time trying flesh out somebody else's unfinished homebrew. I truly do love a good rules argument — offline. Interrupting a Cosmic game for a rules argument is like interrupting sex to play Wii Sports. Both are fun, but let's keep our priorities straight!

hadsil wrote:
Make an official ruling for your game and be done with it.

Or ... finish designing the power and be done with it for everyone.

hadsil wrote:
Perhaps the answer to the Siren question is to add Do Not Use With Siren to Bushwhacker because a solution does not otherwise present itself. That doesn't make Bushwhacker a terrible idea; it just means there's a rules conflict with Siren such that they can't be in the same game.

Nobody is saying Bushwhacker is a terrible idea. I happen to think it's a very interesting idea, but an obviously unfinished one. I'm asking questions in the hope that the power could be fleshed out enough to be playable without it being an exercise in "hey group, I've got a cool idea; it's got a lot of leaks but don't worry, I'll make up rulings for those as we play".

I guess I just need to understand that that way is fun for you and your group, and stop expecting that some kind of dialog here can help us mature some of these (good) ideas into playable forms.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerald Katz
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I actually do want to hear other people's opinions of the home made powers. Even if I eventually disagree, sometimes I will learn something. Adding Do Not Use With Siren sounds like a good idea to me now. I added Dictator and Fate on my own (Fate being a home made power I created). I'm ok with Clone having to discard too. It's really tough luck on Clone, but I wouldn't object if he got to keep it.

I am so looking forward now to when my Continuum power comes up.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm trying to craft a fully FFG-ized version of Bushwhacker that closes a few gaps without changing what you're trying to accomplish, and running into more questions:

* The Wild seems to be doing essentially the same thing as the base power, but I can't tell if the players are supposed to "play" their cards face up or face down. In other words, are they selecting early or revealing early?

* Other than returning to hand instead of discarding, is the Wild intended to work exactly the same as the base power, or are you trying to create some difference here since the language is different?

* Why does the base power work after the destiny draw when the Wild works before? Wouldn't it be a lot simpler if they both fired right before drawing destiny? I think I'm not understanding the purpose of letting the offense see the destiny color before all the cards are chosen, since the offense doesn't get to see those cards yet anyway and knowing the color does not allow him to influence anyone's choices. I want to make the power and the Wild both say "As the offense, before you draw destiny, ...". Any problem with that?

* If for some reason you really need destiny to be drawn before cards are picked, then we will need to specify what happens when the offense draws from the destiny deck more than once (flipped his own color and drew again, drew a comet, whatever). Currently I've added the sentence "(If you are allowed or required to draw again, keep only your last destiny card hidden.)" But I really want to make all that mess go away by just having cards picked before destiny is drawn. It is a lot cleaner and I don't see that it hurts the power in any way. Am I missing something?

* I think I can make it so the defense's card is on the table yet still part of his hand, but for the sake of simplicity and brevity I really want to make everyone else's card just "on the table". Since the non-defense players' cards are on the table so very briefly (just long enough for everyone to choose and then destiny to be revealed), I can't think of a reason why the other players really need to consider these cards part of their hands. It seems like the possibilities you want to allow for the "must-play" card to get taken or discarded really apply to the defense's card, right?

* How badly do you truly need the defense's card to be "part of his hand"? This really is swimming upstream and working against everyone's intuition. Even the Wild effect you wrote says "all other players return their cards to their hands" which makes it abundantly clear that all those cards were not part of the hands.

* Do you want the Super to grab the discards from the table or from the discard pile? This will affect interactions with other card-snatching powers and will also determine whether reward-back cards can or cannot be taken using Super Bushwhacker. I'm guessing you're going to say "from the table", which unfortunately means we will need more complex language in order to build in a "reveal, choose, then discard" mechanic.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerald Katz
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bill Martinson wrote:
I'm trying to craft a fully FFG-ized version of Bushwhacker that closes a few gaps without changing what you're trying to accomplish, and running into more questions:

* The Wild seems to be doing essentially the same thing as the base power, but I can't tell if the players are supposed to "play" their cards face up or face down. In other words, are they selecting early or revealing early?

The cards are played face down.

* Other than returning to hand instead of discarding, is the Wild intended to work exactly the same as the base power, or are you trying to create some difference here since the language is different?

Same as power but cards are returned to hand.

* Why does the base power work after the destiny draw when the Wild works before? Wouldn't it be a lot simpler if they both fired right before drawing destiny? I think I'm not understanding the purpose of letting the offense see the destiny color before all the cards are chosen, since the offense doesn't get to see those cards yet anyway and knowing the color does not allow him to influence anyone's choices. I want to make the power and the Wild both say "As the offense, before you draw destiny, ...". Any problem with that?

Doesn't really make a difference. There might be some minutae detail that makes a difference based on some other game effect, but it's just vernacular.

* If for some reason you really need destiny to be drawn before cards are picked, then we will need to specify what happens when the offense draws from the destiny deck more than once (flipped his own color and drew again, drew a comet, whatever). Currently I've added the sentence "(If you are allowed or required to draw again, keep only your last destiny card hidden.)" But I really want to make all that mess go away by just having cards picked before destiny is drawn. It is a lot cleaner and I don't see that it hurts the power in any way. Am I missing something?

Players only play their card once. If Bushwhacker draws his own color, he can flip again. If Bushwhacker decides to attack another player in his sytem, that player is the defender and everyone else discards. If he regains an empty home colony or takes an empty moon when playing with moons no one is the defender and everyone discards their bushwhacked card.

* I think I can make it so the defense's card is on the table yet still part of his hand, but for the sake of simplicity and brevity I really want to make everyone else's card just "on the table". Since the non-defense players' cards are on the table so very briefly (just long enough for everyone to choose and then destiny to be revealed), I can't think of a reason why the other players really need to consider these cards part of their hands. It seems like the possibilities you want to allow for the "must-play" card to get taken or discarded really apply to the defense's card, right?

When players have to play their bushwhacked card, there's nothing they can do but zap Bushwhacker. If they're not the defender, the card is discarded and no longer in their hand. It's only the defender who keeps the card committed to be played but part of his hand.

* How badly do you truly need the defense's card to be "part of his hand"? This really is swimming upstream and working against everyone's intuition. Even the Wild effect you wrote says "all other players return their cards to their hands" which makes it abundantly clear that all those cards were not part of the hands.

The Wild Flare is supposed to be weaker than the power. The defender's card needs to be part of his hand to allow for the possibility of getting rid of it, such as Philanthropist or Trader or some other effect that allows the discarding of cards. "Return" just means they physically place the card they were holding face down on the table back into their hand. "Return" just means "return". It doesn't imply anything.


* Do you want the Super to grab the discards from the table or from the discard pile? This will affect interactions with other card-snatching powers and will also determine whether reward-back cards can or cannot be taken using Super Bushwhacker. I'm guessing you're going to say "from the table", which unfortunately means we will need more complex language in order to build in a "reveal, choose, then discard" mechanic.


The cards are taken from the table before they go to the discard pile. I fail to see how that's complicated. Players discard the cards. Super Bushwhacker can take any of those cards he wants.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hadsil wrote:
If Bushwhacker ... regains an empty home colony or takes an empty moon when playing with moons no one is the defender and everyone discards their bushwhacked card.

Glad you mentioned that; this is something else the power needs to clarify. (A player might just as easily interpret that the power doesn't apply in this case and everyone gets to return their card to their hand.)

hadsil wrote:
* I think I can make it so the defense's card is on the table yet still part of his hand, but for the sake of simplicity and brevity I really want to make everyone else's card just "on the table". Since the non-defense players' cards are on the table so very briefly (just long enough for everyone to choose and then destiny to be revealed), I can't think of a reason why the other players really need to consider these cards part of their hands. It seems like the possibilities you want to allow for the "must-play" card to get taken or discarded really apply to the defense's card, right?

When players have to play their bushwhacked card, there's nothing they can do but zap Bushwhacker. If they're not the defender, the card is discarded and no longer in their hand. It's only the defender who keeps the card committed to be played but part of his hand.

I think you missed the question, which was "you don't really need the non-defense players' cards to be defined as part of their hand, right? Just whoever is revealed to be the defense."

hadsil wrote:
"Return" just means they physically place the card they were holding face down on the table back into their hand. "Return" just means "return". It doesn't imply anything.[/b]

On the contrary. "Return" not only implies but demands leaving. It is impossible to return to something that you did not leave. You can't return home until after you are someplace that is not home.

I count about seven cases of "returning" cards to hands in FFG, and in every case the cards were not in the hand they are returning to.

hadsil wrote:
The cards are taken from the table before they go to the discard pile. I fail to see how that's complicated.

:sigh: That seems to be a theme here.

It's complicated because the cards are face down, and then go to the discard pile. If you don't specify the timing and state of the cards taken, then everyone has to argue about whether he takes them (a) off the table (without getting to see the faces first), (b) "on their way" to the discard pile (whatever the hell that would mean about timing and visibility), or (c) back from the discard pile. In the latter case, he would be able to see the cards before choosing, but them would not be able to take reward-back cards since they would be locked into the reward deck discard pile.

Presumably you want all the cards to be flipped face up so he can choose the ones he wants before anything else happens; then the others get discarded. If so, this "examination" step needs to be explicitly allowed by the power. That's what I was trying to get at.

Just because we don't see complication on first glance doesn't mean it's not there. Do you fail to see it because you don't want to see it, or because I'm doing a poor job of explaining it? If the latter, I will do my best to be more clear in the future.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
All right, here's what I've got. I wanted to make this more concise by chipping away some of the unnecessary stuff, but it sounds like you really want the exceptions to remain in place. So here's an FFG-ized version with no tinkering other than the non-defense players' cards are not declared to be "in their hands". (That could be added back in, but at the expense of more bloat.)

BUSHWHACKER |_|
KEEPS TARGET SECRET


You have the power to Ambush. As the offense, when you draw destiny, use this power to keep the destiny card hidden. (If you are allowed or required to draw again, keep only your last destiny card hidden.) All other players must then choose from their hands the card they will play as their encounter card if they become the defense, and set it aside facedown (drawing a new hand first if necessary). You then reveal the destiny card, and all players who are not indicated as the defense must discard the cards they chose. The card selected by the defense remains on the table but is considered part of your opponent's hand until encounter cards are selected (during any card selection affecting the defense's hand, the selecting player may choose or ignore the set-aside card). Unless that card is taken or discarded, the defense must play it as his or her encounter card.

The Bushwhackers have excelled in striking out at opponents when they least expect it. These surprise tactics have allowed for numerous conquests as their opponents cannot effectively coordinate their plans with those who foolishly choose to help them.

DO NOT USE WITH DICTATOR, SIREN, OR FATE
Offense Only - Mandatory - Destiny

Wild: As the offense, before you draw destiny, you may force all other players to choose from their hands the card they will play as their encounter card if they become the defense, and set it aside facedown (drawing a new hand first if necessary). All players who are not indicated as the defense must return their cards to their hands. The card selected by the defense remains on the table but is considered part of your opponent's hand until encounter cards are selected (during any card selection affecting the defense's hand, the selecting player may choose or ignore the set-aside card). Unless that card is taken or discarded, the defense must play it as his or her encounter card.
Offense Only - Destiny

Super: Before cards are discarded by the non-defense players, you may examine them and take any or all of them to add to your hand.
Offense Only - Destiny

The power fits on an alien sheet if you drop the text down to 8pt and the history down to 7pt. The Wild of course is far too long for the card ... but everything that needs to be explained for the base power needs to be re-explained here. Wild flares must be written as fully stand-alone, since players could easily be using one without ever having seen the base power.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerald Katz
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You could write "follows like the Bushwhacker power" somewhere in the Wild section to cut down on the wording or something similar.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.