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Subject: "Skill is when luck becomes habit" rss

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Dennis Bingham
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Discuss the quote in the subject.
 
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David C
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ScYcS wrote:
Discuss the quote in the subject.


If you, the OP, can't come up with anything to say about it, and you had the inspiration to even make the post... I think the rest of us are hosed on having any idea about this.
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David C
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I've often heard the phrase, "luck favors the prepared".
 
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David C
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But as we all know, "the eagle flies south, at dawn's early light"
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Dennis Bingham
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bippi wrote:
ScYcS wrote:
Discuss the quote in the subject.


If you, the OP, can't come up with anything to say about it, and you had the inspiration to even make the post... I think the rest of us are hosed on having any idea about this.


Alright, sure i can come up with something, i just didn't want to make the first step into the discussion, but ok....

Well, i find this quote rather interesting. On the one hand, i see people repeatedly complaining about someone winning a supposingly "luck based" game over and over again. Is this pure luck? If i win a game of say......Yatzee and win 8 out of 10 times or let's say 80 out of 100 times...then i just can't say it's pure luck anymore. But the game Yatzee with it's many dice and dice rolls is one of these poster children of luck based games right?

So where does "luck" end and where does "skill" begin? The quote above holds definately a lot of truth i think, even if most people would claim that some games are pure luck.
 
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Lacombe
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Suddenly a shot rang out! A door slammed. The maid screamed. Suddenly a pirate ship appeared on the horizon! While millions of people were starving, the king lived in luxury. Meanwhile, on a small farm in Kansas, a boy was growing up.
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Word + "is when" + Antonym + "becomes" + Synonym = a fun formula for creating maxims

"Patience is when frustration becomes forbearance"

"Excellence is when failure becomes improvement"

"Perfection is when deficiency becomes virtue"

"Awesome is when ordinary becomes sublime"

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Ron Parker
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Nah, LCR is the canonical poster child for luck-based "games." Yahtzee has some luck involved, but there's at least some element of skill in knowing which dice to keep.

The quote itself makes no sense to me. Skill isn't when "luck becomes habit" (whatever that's supposed to mean. It seems to be based on the sour-grapes definition of luck that you might use when you say "you won because you were lucky, but I won because I'm skilled.") In the real world, skill is what you do with what luck gives you.

Edited to add: there's also skill in Yahtzee in knowing how to score a given result.
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Felix Rodriguez
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ScYcS wrote:


Well, i find this quote rather interesting. On the one hand, i see people repeatedly complaining about someone winning a supposingly "luck based" game over and over again. Is this pure luck? If i win a game of say......Yatzee and win 8 out of 10 times or let's say 80 out of 100 times...then i just can't say it's pure luck anymore. But the game Yatzee with it's many dice and dice rolls is one of these poster children of luck based games right?



Yahtzee is an high skill game. Just because you roll dice doesn't automatically make a game luck. In fact, most games with extremely high levels of dice rolls generally come down to skill as the dice rolls generally average out over time.
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Dennis Bingham
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I really used that game only as a (bad?) example. I have not played it in over 20 years.
 
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Eric Phillips
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Luck cannot become habitual. Even if you can prove that some people are consistently luckier than others, that's not a skill they've developed.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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ScYcS wrote:
Discuss the quote in the subject.


No thanks. I will say that if you're going to provide a quote, you should provide attribution as well.
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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Quote:
You make your own luck.
-- Ernest Hemingway
 
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Dennis Bingham
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Sphere wrote:
ScYcS wrote:
Discuss the quote in the subject.


No thanks. I will say that if you're going to provide a quote, you should provide attribution as well.


I can't provide the author of this quote as i do not know who said it first. I'm not even sure if it is relevant who said it first.

Maybe this should be laid to rest by the mods (can i lock my own thread?) as it seems that this isn't something people are willing to discuss at all. I simply thought it was an interesting quote (from unknown) that has some discussion potential but alas, it took a wrong turn from the getgo.
 
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Eric Phillips
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bwingrave wrote:
Quote:
You make your own luck.
-- Ernest Hemingway


That's another way of saying that there's no such thing as luck, which is clearly not true.
 
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Daniel Corban
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I submit that every game is luck-based, since there is an insanely unlikely chain of events over the past few billion years which have resulted in the ability of our species to invent and play the games in the first place.
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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Fortuna wrote:
That's another way of saying that there's no such thing as luck, which is clearly not true.

I think the point of the Hemingway quote is that it doesn't make sense to wait for luck or to blame luck when life doesn't go your way; instead, you need to work in order to make things happen as they want them to.
 
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Ted Groth
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Fortuna wrote:
Luck cannot become habitual. Even if you can prove that some people are consistently luckier than others, that's not a skill they've developed.

Maxims like this gloss over the exact word definitions, in the interest of brevity, so a literal interpretation will be nonsense. But the phrase can still be meaningful, if you allow for poetic license.

In this case, I interpret the meaning to be that people can become good at games or tasks that seem at first to be entirely luck based, because repeated exposure allows them to recognize situations where they can either predict or influence the outcome. This can be true even if the person can not articulate the knowledge they have that gives them this ability.

So this maxim is not really the same as the similar "You make your own" luck" quoted above, which to me implies conscious effort to influence the situation, similar to "Luck favors the prepared" also quoted above.
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Ron Parker
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ScYcS wrote:
it seems that this isn't something people are willing to discuss at all.


Then you've missed the parts where people are discussing the quote.
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Eric Phillips
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bwingrave wrote:
Fortuna wrote:
That's another way of saying that there's no such thing as luck, which is clearly not true.

I think the point of the Hemingway quote is that it doesn't make sense to wait for luck or to blame luck when life doesn't go your way; instead, you need to work in order to make things happen as they want them to.


Yeah, that's the practical import. At least, that's what we get if we assume that Hemingway didn't actually mean there was no such thing as luck. I'm sure if we knew the context of the statement, it would support your reading. But in the context of this thread, the quotation's meaning changes.
 
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Daniel Corban
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I interpreted the subject line to mean "Pattern recognition is a skill".
 
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Dennis Bingham
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parkrrrr wrote:
ScYcS wrote:
it seems that this isn't something people are willing to discuss at all.


Then you've missed the parts where people are discussing the quote.


I just didn't (still don't) want this to get out of hand and become a discussion about me not providing the author of the quote or a discussion about me failing to contribute in first place or me using the wrong game as an example, that's all. I simply sensed a lot of negativity in this thread and that wasn't my intention for this.

PS: i am in complete agreement with Ted Groth's post!
 
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Eric Phillips
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Tradewinds Ted wrote:
Fortuna wrote:
Luck cannot become habitual. Even if you can prove that some people are consistently luckier than others, that's not a skill they've developed.

Maxims like this gloss over the exact word definitions, in the interest of brevity, so a literal interpretation will be nonsense. But the phrase can still be meaningful, if you allow for poetic license.


The problem with this kind of poetic overstatement is that it almost always is used argumentatively, to one-up someone who is complaining about his luck, and it's cheap and dismissive to slap someone with poetic overstatement in lieu of an actual argument.
 
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Max Maloney
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I remember Larry Bird saying something like, "The more I practice, the luckier I seem to be."
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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I'm certainly guilty of negativity - luck discussion thread number 9,587 doesn't light me up. I generally don't even open them, but since you used the quote marks I opened this one to see who you were quoting. If nobody knows who said it, it isn't a quote, it's a saying or a maxim or something.
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David C
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I guess the real problem I have with the 'luck' question is that I think whether a game is based on luck or not is completely irrelevant to if I'm having any fun or not.

Now, granted, I think certain games fall in the "too random to matter" category.
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