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Subject: Rise of Eldrazi Draft - 4 players rss

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Chad Martinell
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The players were Eric, Doug, David and me. Both Eric and I had drafted Eldrazi prior to this night, Doug and David had not even seen any of the cards to my knowledge (though I had provided them a link to the Gatherer beforehand.) I supplied a box of cards and was going to take possession of all the cards after the game, so there was no pressure to take the "rare" or "cool" cards during the draft itself.

Doug and David both had a similar strategy using levelers, but David used blue while Doug used white, primarily for its removal spells.

Eric and I also had similar strategy in trying to build an Eldrazi deck to get the big guys to the table. Mine was red/green and focused on getting spawn tokens. I only had 3 Eldrazi cards, It That Betrays, Hand of Emrakul, and Eldrazi Conscription. I also built in a bunch of defense in the form of walls, Sporecap Spiders, and a Spider Umbra or 2, as well as several direct damage spells (Staggershock, Heat Ray and Disaster Radius.) Eric on the other hand went green/blue and was able to snag a bunch of mana accel, eldrazi spawn generators, and deck accel with the blue cards! He also had 4-5 Eldrazi in his deck... and the worst part was, if he got one out, you knew another was right on it's heals!

First rounds were me vs. Doug, and Eric vs. David.

In our games my deck worked pretty well. I was able to get the walls down and keep his small stuff in check with DD before he could level it, but no matter what I did he seemed to have an answer for it, and eventually he would get one of his guys leveled up and start wailing on me until I lost. In the first game I was able to get Eldrazi Conscription onto an Emrakul's Hatcher, making it 13/13 w/ Anhialator 2, but he tapped the Hatcher in response so I wasn't able to attack with it. The next turn I attacked, he sacced 2 lands, and then cast Smite after blocking. He won that game.

(Quick question, if I attack with a 13/13, and he blocks, but then uses Smite to "destroy target blocked creature", does the blocked creature do any damage or does it get destroyed prior to damage being dealt?")

In our second game I was able to cast a Nest Invader to get an Eldrazi Spawn on the table 2nd turn, then on the 3rd turn I cast Brood Birthing for 3 more Spawn, then sacced them all to drop Hand of Emrakul (7/7, Anhialator 1). I was very proud of myself, but then on his turn he Ousted the Hand back into my deck, and I drew it again 2 turns later... but didn't have any mana to cast anything. He won again. (0/2 for me.)

Eric's deck worked great in his frist game against David, but the next 2 games were plagued with mana problems. However, in both games it was a mere 1 turn between David winning and Eric winning in both cases. David won 2/1.

That matched David up with Doug and Eric with me. Man, Eric's deck was lightning quick, and the few times I could drop something cool (Eldrazi Conscription - twice!) he was able to counter it thanks to his blue cards. His creatures were just a bit too big for most of my burn, and they were able to break through my walls pretty easily... and unfortunately, he was relying on mana accel to drop his Eldrazi, so when he did drop one, another was going to be hitting the table the next turn most likely. I didn't have anything to answer it, though I was able to block for a turn or 2, but once he got multiple Eldrazi going I was losing 4 permanents per turn to Anhialator, and that was all she wrote. I lost again, 0/2.

I didn't see much of David and Doug's games, but it seemed that Doug's deck just played circles around David's. Doug beat David 2/0.

Unfortunately it was late and David had to head out. I should have had Eric play Doug to see who would win, since the 3 of us stayed and opened the rest of the box anyway. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I would have liked to see Doug's deck take on Eric's... I did keep both decks intact (remember, I got all the cards afterwards,) and I plan on getting together with Eric tomorrow, so we'll see just how it goes.

Without playing the final round, Doug went 4/0 and Eric went 3/1, so that makes Doug the winner for this draft!
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Michael Lavoie
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chadmart wrote:
(Quick question, if I attack with a 13/13, and he blocks, but then uses Smite to "destroy target blocked creature", does the blocked creature do any damage or does it get destroyed prior to damage being dealt?"


Quick answer: I believe that the damage from the blocked creature goes on the stack and is dealt to the blocker (and the opponent if the blocked creature has trample), even though the creature is destroyed.
 
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Eric Jome
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chadmart wrote:
(Quick question, if I attack with a 13/13, and he blocks, but then uses Smite to "destroy target blocked creature", does the blocked creature do any damage or does it get destroyed prior to damage being dealt?")


No, the blocked creature does not do any damage. Smite is very powerful... before the block is resolved, you just plain blow away the attacking guy.
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Eric Jome
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MichaelLavoie wrote:
Quick answer: I believe that the damage from the blocked creature goes on the stack and is dealt to the blocker (and the opponent if the blocked creature has trample), even though the creature is destroyed.


Nope.

Here's how it goes;

1) One player declares attackers.
2) Both players get a chance to do things like activated abilities and instants.
3) The other player declares blockers.
4) Again both players get to do things like activated abilities and instants.
5) Players resolve any remaining combats by assigning damage and working out the effects.

So, at step 4, Smite destroys the attacking creature. At step 5, there is no attacker to assign it's damage to player or blocking creature (even if the attacker had Trample - you have to make it to step 5 for that to work).
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Chad Martinell
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cosine wrote:
MichaelLavoie wrote:
Quick answer: I believe that the damage from the blocked creature goes on the stack and is dealt to the blocker (and the opponent if the blocked creature has trample), even though the creature is destroyed.


Nope.

Here's how it goes;

1) One player declares attackers.
2) Both players get a chance to do things like activated abilities and instants.
3) The other player declares blockers.
4) Again both players get to do things like activated abilities and instants.
5) Players resolve any remaining combats by assigning damage and working out the effects.

So, at step 4, Smite destroys the attacking creature. At step 5, there is no attacker to assign it's damage to player or blocking creature (even if the attacker had Trample - you have to make it to step 5 for that to work).


So explain this one to me... Lets say I have a Kor Line-slinger. He lets me tap a creature with power 3 or less.
1) I declare attackers
2) both players do instants, activated abilities.
3) The other player declares blockers
4) I use Kor Line-slinger as a response to him declaring the blocker, since it is now tapped it can no longer block.
5) Somehow this tapped creature not only still blocks, it also does its damage!
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Zach May
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chadmart wrote:

So explain this one to me... Lets say I have a Kor Line-slinger. He lets me tap a creature with power 3 or less.
1) I declare attackers
2) both players do instants, activated abilities.
3) The other player declares blockers
4) I use Kor Line-slinger as a response to him declaring the blocker, since it is now tapped it can no longer block.
5) Somehow this tapped creature not only still blocks, it also does its damage!


The distinction to make is that a tapped creature can't be declared as a blocker. If it becomes tapped after blockers are declared, no big deal.

If you want to keep a creature from blocking, tap it before the declare blockers step: at the latest, step three as you list them.
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Chad Martinell
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funkhauser wrote:
The distinction to make is that a tapped creature can't be declared as a blocker. If it becomes tapped after blockers are declared, no big deal.

If you want to keep a creature from blocking, tap it before the declare blockers step: at the latest, step three as you list them.


So, there isn't a way to nullify a blocker after it has been declared? No matter what I do after the declaration, it will still block at a minimum, and sometimes still do damage? i.e. I attack with Mons Goblin Raiders and my opponent blocks with Llanowar Elves.

If I were to cast a Swords to Plowshares and remove it from the game, it won't deal damage because it isn't there during that last damage step, but my creature will still be considered blocked, but if I were to say cast a lightning bolt instead, and kill it that way, then not only does it still block, it also does its damage to the Goblins? (meaning it would be a waste of a lightning bolt) Is this thinking correct?

What I'm trying to get out of this is if my opponent has multiple blockers, and I attack with one creature, and I only have one spell to get rid of a blocker, I want a way for the opponent to have to declare which creature is blocking and then remove that creature so that my creature can hit the opponent. Is that possible?
 
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Adam Ruprecht
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chadmart wrote:

If I were to cast a Swords to Plowshares and remove it from the game, it won't deal damage because it isn't there during that last damage step, but my creature will still be considered blocked, but if I were to say cast a lightning bolt instead, and kill it that way, then not only does it still block, it also does its damage to the Goblins? (meaning it would be a waste of a lightning bolt) Is this thinking correct?


If the lightning bolt was enough to kill the blocker, the blocker won't do damage. If the lightning bolt just knocked it low enough that the attacker could finish it off, the blocker will still get to do its damage.

Quote:
What I'm trying to get out of this is if my opponent has multiple blockers, and I attack with one creature, and I only have one spell to get rid of a blocker, I want a way for the opponent to have to declare which creature is blocking and then remove that creature so that my creature can hit the opponent. Is that possible?


Not unless the attacker has trample.
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David Chapman
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chadmart wrote:
What I'm trying to get out of this is if my opponent has multiple blockers, and I attack with one creature, and I only have one spell to get rid of a blocker, I want a way for the opponent to have to declare which creature is blocking and then remove that creature so that my creature can hit the opponent. Is that possible?


No. Once a blocker is declared, it's too late to stop your creature being blocked. Unless it has trample, it will not deal combat damage to the defending player.
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Chad Martinell
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Ok. Good to know. Thanks for all the responses.
 
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Michael Lavoie
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cosine wrote:
MichaelLavoie wrote:
Quick answer: I believe that the damage from the blocked creature goes on the stack and is dealt to the blocker (and the opponent if the blocked creature has trample), even though the creature is destroyed.


Nope.

Here's how it goes;

1) One player declares attackers.
2) Both players get a chance to do things like activated abilities and instants.
3) The other player declares blockers.
4) Again both players get to do things like activated abilities and instants.
5) Players resolve any remaining combats by assigning damage and working out the effects.

So, at step 4, Smite destroys the attacking creature. At step 5, there is no attacker to assign it's damage to player or blocking creature (even if the attacker had Trample - you have to make it to step 5 for that to work).


Thanks for clearing that up! Looks like I've been playing it wrong all these years! I was taught that damage went immediately onto the stack. It would seem that I need to actually read the comprehensive rules.
 
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AJ Newhausen
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MichaelLavoie wrote:
Thanks for clearing that up! Looks like I've been playing it wrong all these years! I was taught that damage went immediately onto the stack. It would seem that I need to actually read the comprehensive rules.


They cleaned up the combat damage step about a year ago...now, combat damage doesn't go on the stack at all. Before, you could use effects either before OR after damage hit the stack...now, you can only play effects before damage is dealt.

At no point was it 'after only', like you seem to be under the impression of. There was always an opportunity to play instants and effects between 'declare blockers' and 'damage on the stack'.

EDIT: I should probably take back that 'at no point'. I don't recall anymore how it worked before 1999, but that's the way the rules worked for all of Sixth-Seventh-Eighth-Ninth-Tenth Edition.
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Eric Jome
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Note that while one player is declaring their attackers, no player may play activated abilities or instant spells. Declaring attackers cannot be interrupted.

Also, declaring blockers cannot be interrupted - no effects may be played at that time.

This is why it is necessary to give a step before and after each of these declaration phases - to give someone a chance to do something that will affect the next step. You mention a creature that can tap to tap a creature... this can be used both offensively or defensively. On offense, after you declare your attackers, you can just tap it for its activated ability.

Defense is a bit different. Before a player is going to leave his first main phase and declare his attackers, theoretically, they should tell you that they are going into their attack phase, giving you a chance to respond with activated abilities and instants - like tapping a potential attacker. It would technically be an invalid play for them then to play a Sorcery (for example) after you tap their potential attacker - they've moved out of their main phase.
 
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Hunter Shelburne
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You weren't playing it wrong, they just removed the Stack from damage in the lastest edition of the rules where you can't play activated abilities/spells during damage resolution. No more stacking damage then saccing Mogg Fanatic and dealing an extra 1, things like that.
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Armadillo Al wrote:


They cleaned up the combat damage step about a year ago...now, combat damage doesn't go on the stack at all.


Wow. It's been a few years since I played but have returned to the game these last two months and I did not know this. I'd known of the dropping of the mana burn rule and some new terminology ("Battlefield" is now what was once "in play" (and I hate this BTW)). But this one is a shocker! Played for so many years I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around combat damage not going on the stack anymore! (Sacrifice!!!) cry It is what it is though, so I'll have to get with the times. Glad I checked out this session report. Now I gotta break the news to my fellow geeks, we're meeting up for some late night MTG sessions tomorrow.
 
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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cosine wrote:
Defense is a bit different. Before a player is going to leave his first main phase and declare his attackers, theoretically, they should tell you that they are going into their attack phase, giving you a chance to respond with activated abilities and instants - like tapping a potential attacker. It would technically be an invalid play for them then to play a Sorcery (for example) after you tap their potential attacker - they've moved out of their main phase.


Not quite. You end the precombat main phase after both players pass priority with an empty stack. If the active player passes, then the non-active player activates an ability to tap a potential attacker, then both players pass so the ability resolves, it is now the active player's priority again, still during the precombat main phase, and he may play a non-instant spell. Once both players pass on an empty stack, it is the combat phase, and attackers are declared before either player has an opportunity to activate any abilities. There is no part of the combat phase prior to declaring attackers.

You can then tap or destroy potential blockers during the declare attackers step, after attackers are declared, and then once both players know which creatures are fighting, they can play abilities during the declare blockers step, after blockers have been declared. Then there's combat damage step, which now happens atomically, without any window in which to activate abilities in between assigning and dealing combat damage.
 
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cosine wrote:
MichaelLavoie wrote:
Quick answer: I believe that the damage from the blocked creature goes on the stack and is dealt to the blocker (and the opponent if the blocked creature has trample), even though the creature is destroyed.


Nope.

Here's how it goes;

1) One player declares attackers.
2) Both players get a chance to do things like activated abilities and instants.
3) The other player declares blockers.
4) Again both players get to do things like activated abilities and instants.
5) Players resolve any remaining combats by assigning damage and working out the effects.

So, at step 4, Smite destroys the attacking creature. At step 5, there is no attacker to assign it's damage to player or blocking creature (even if the attacker had Trample - you have to make it to step 5 for that to work).


This makes Smite even more awesome than i thought!
This mini-summary is awesome, i've finally gotten my head wrapped around combat now, thanks to this.

[quote]The distinction to make is that a tapped creature can't be declared as a blocker. If it becomes tapped after blockers are declared, no big deal.[/quote]

So, to conclude, it is the act of declaring a blocker that engages a creature in the act of blocking, rather than being tapped or untapped or whatever when blocking actually occurs. Correct?
 
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Hunter Shelburne
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arxhon wrote:
[q="cosine"][q="MichaelLavoie"]

So, to conclude, it is the act of declaring a blocker that engages a creature in the act of blocking, rather than being tapped or untapped or whatever when blocking actually occurs. Correct?


Precisely, if after the declare attackers and all of that you're guys are still untapped, any of the untapped creature can block, and after declare blockers you have one last chance to tap and play spells, but those creatures will still be blocking.
 
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