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Descent: The Road to Legend» Forums » Rules

Subject: Acrobat vs. Marshy Valley rss

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Rob Bradley
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The Marshy Valley location card has the affect:

Bog
It costs 1 extra movement point ot enter any space that is adjacent to water.

Does a hero with acrobat pay the one extra?

Does the 1 extra movement point stack with mud?

 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Quote:
Acrobat
You may move through enemy figures. In addition, you may enter and move through obstacles (but not other props, such as scything blades or boulders) without effect. You may not end your movement or make an attack from a space occupied by either another figure or an obstacle that blocks movement.


By the RAW, the spaces next to water contain no obstacles, so yes, a hero with Acrobat will still have to pay 2MPs to enter any space adjacent to water.

However, I can see this as a reasonable house-rule since Acrobats don't have to pay penalty to move through "mud", so why through Bog? Note though, that it would be a house-rule and not official.

-shnar
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Spacehulk wrote:
The Marshy Valley location card has the affect:

Bog
It costs 1 extra movement point ot enter any space that is adjacent to water.

Does a hero with acrobat pay the one extra?


Technically no (assuming a normal space beside the water), as Acrobat allows you to move through obstacles without effect and the 'boggy' spaces are not obstacles.

This is pretty much 'technicality' territory though. The sort of thing that lets a mass murderer walk free because a cop missed a procedural step when arresting...
A reasonable houserule would allow an Acrobat to ignore the bog, and a Flyer to do so too.

Quote:
Does the 1 extra movement point stack with mud?


Yes, though of course the acrobat could ignore both mud and 'bog' since such a space would be an obstacle (mud) and can be moved through without effect.



 
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Rob Bradley
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...so by RAW, flyers would pay the extra too? I suppose you are right, we didn't even think about that one.
 
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Corbon's answer sets it well : given that if there is Mud *and* bog the Acrobat pays only 1 MP, surely he pays only 1 when there is Bog but no Mud.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Without clarification from FFG, if you go technically by the rules, there is no bog "obstacle", so the Acrobat would have to spend 2MPs. While I dislike it and we will play that Bog=Mud Obstacle, that's not how it's techincally written and without clarification from FFG, playing any other way is a house-rule.

-shnar
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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shnar wrote:
Without clarification from FFG, if you go technically by the rules, there is no bog "obstacle", so the Acrobat would have to spend 2MPs. While I dislike it and we will play that Bog=Mud Obstacle, that's not how it's techincally written and without clarification from FFG, playing any other way is a house-rule.

-shnar


+1

Its one of those not-quite-how-it-is-written but extremely sensible house rules*.

Sort of like what Ed said on a recent post (paraphrased): "Sure you have the Ring of Freedom and can technically spend MP, but dude, you are asleep."

*One does have to be careful with these though, because very often "extremely sensible" just means "didn't think of this other angle" or "didn't understand the overall balance!".
In this case though I think it is such a minor change really that it is unlikely to significantly change balance - and I haven;t heard of a reasonable angle why bog should affect flyers or acrobats when mud does not.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Merrimac wrote:
Corbon's answer sets it well : given that if there is Mud *and* bog the Acrobat pays only 1 MP, surely he pays only 1 when there is Bog but no Mud.


Apparently the bog provides clumps of grass amid the mud that give better footing.
 
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Rob Bradley
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It just bothers me that SOOOOOO many of the encounters raise questions that the writer never thought of. I mean seriously, if ou are writing an encounter, they should be able to think through the skills and abilities that break or don't make sense.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Spacehulk wrote:
It just bothers me that SOOOOOO many of the encounters raise questions that the writer never thought of. I mean seriously, if ou are writing an encounter, they should be able to think through the skills and abilities that break or don't make sense.


This is partly an artifact of insisting that only the core game is necessary to play the advanced campaign with. For example, mud is not in the core game so was possibly not even on the list of things to consider when writing this encounter.

It also seems apparent that some things are written by people with old history in the making of the game but that those people are not up to date. For example, there is a boss Hellhound that gets '1 additional Burn'. Yet Master Hellhounds don't have Burn - although it appears that they might have had Burn ability in a very early (pre-release/playtest probably, since in the first release they didn't have Burn) version of the game.

It also appears that the playtesters FFG use (we assume they use some) are not the right sort of people. For playtesters you need hardnosed scum, players who will pull every trick and twist every rule they can think of (even if they wouldn't do that in a 'real' game they need to be capable of thinking that way). What you do not need is nice, friendly, happy, gamers who 'play the game the way it was intended' and lose just as cheerfully as they win.
Playtesting is not the same as playing. Having a good time with your mates is not the objective. Stressing the rules is the objective.

And then you add in the total lack of editing...
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corbon wrote:


It also seems apparent that some things are written by people with old history in the making of the game but that those people are not up to date. For example, there is a boss Hellhound that gets '1 additional Burn'. Yet Master Hellhounds don't have Burn - although it appears that they might have had Burn ability in a very early (pre-release/playtest probably, since in the first release they didn't have Burn) version of the game.


Perhaps it's not carefully written, but it's easy to interpret :
0 + 1 = 1, ergo it has the usual Burn ability (1 token per hit).
 
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Rob Bradley
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Merrimac wrote:
corbon wrote:


It also seems apparent that some things are written by people with old history in the making of the game but that those people are not up to date. For example, there is a boss Hellhound that gets '1 additional Burn'. Yet Master Hellhounds don't have Burn - although it appears that they might have had Burn ability in a very early (pre-release/playtest probably, since in the first release they didn't have Burn) version of the game.


Perhaps it's not carefully written, but it's easy to interpret :
0 + 1 = 1, ergo it has the usual Burn ability (1 token per hit).


It was just an example. Many encounters and some dungeons are riddled with poor wording that need or needed further clarification. Yes we can all make these judgements, but who's judgement do we use? Descent is a competitive game shodl the players rely on the OL to make all of these calls? Or are we bound to spend at least 30 minutes every frickin' session arguing the intent?

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Bryann Turner
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Spacehulk wrote:
Or are we bound to spend at least 30 minutes every frickin' session arguing the intent?


Yeah, that's pretty much how it goes...
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Merrimac wrote:
corbon wrote:


It also seems apparent that some things are written by people with old history in the making of the game but that those people are not up to date. For example, there is a boss Hellhound that gets '1 additional Burn'. Yet Master Hellhounds don't have Burn - although it appears that they might have had Burn ability in a very early (pre-release/playtest probably, since in the first release they didn't have Burn) version of the game.


Perhaps it's not carefully written, but it's easy to interpret :
0 + 1 = 1, ergo it has the usual Burn ability (1 token per hit).


Agreed. It is easy to interpret and play. The point is it shows that the people doing design don't even know the game in it's (then) current state. They are actually designing for a different game!
(There are other indications that Hellhounds may once have had Burn in a prerelease rules version, so it appears that whoever designed this level did it while looking at out-of-date, unofficial and wrong game components/rules).
 
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Rob Bradley
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OK, what about acrobat or flying vs. Ancient Grove. Enormous Oaks: Trees on this map block movement.

So, by RAW, the trees are still obstacles, so flying and acrobat still can move through it correct?
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Spacehulk wrote:
OK, what about acrobat or flying vs. Ancient Grove. Enormous Oaks: Trees on this map block movement.

So, by RAW, the trees are still obstacles, so flying and acrobat still can move through it correct?


Yes.
That is straight forward rules.

Note the errata ruling on this location in the FAQ (they only block movement for single space figures).
 
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