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Subject: 10 worst-paying degrees - Or - Why I'm not an artist rss

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http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/career-articles-worst_paying_colleg...


10. Drama (starting annual salary: $35,600; mid-career annual salary: $56,600)
Some mega-millionaire movie stars with drama degrees (Denzel Washington and Meryl Streep, for instance) may be skewing these numbers upward--for every Denzel and Meryl, there are thousands of thespians struggling to make ends meet. But you don't study drama because you want to get rich--you study drama because you love the theater. (And an ability to act comes in handy in many professions.)

9. Fine arts (starting annual salary: $35,800; mid-career annual salary: $56,300)
Well, it takes an artist to make a thrift-store wardrobe look like a million bucks.

8. Hospitality and tourism (starting annual salary: $37,000; mid-career annual salary: $54,300)
Jobs that include tips may be skewing these numbers downward--and this is an industry that looks to be on the rebound as the economy improves. Plus, the perks associated with jobs in hospitality and tourism may compensate for the comparatively low salaries--many jobs in the industry allow extensive travel (or provide considerable travel discounts).

7. Education (starting annual salary: $36,200; mid-career annual salary: $54,100)
For the right people, teaching is an immensely rewarding career--and it's truly a noble one. The good news is, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the employment opportunities for primary, secondary, and special education teachers are expected to grow by 14 percent in the coming decade. And there will be plenty of new opportunities in continuing education for adults, as professional skill requirements change ever more rapidly.

6. Horticulture (starting annual salary: $37,200; mid-career annual salary: $53,400)
It seems that a green thumb doesn't necessarily bring in the greenbacks. But when you work among flowers and plants in a nursery or garden, who needs 'em?

5. Spanish (starting annual salary: $35,600; mid-career annual salary: $52,600)
As an old proverb puts it, when you learn a new language, you "gain a new soul." Who could put a price on that? And certainly, knowing Spanish--the language with the second-highest number of native speakers (after Mandarin)--in addition to English opens up a world of job opportunities beyond Spanish teacher or translator (as a plus, you can better enjoy a world of fantastic Spanish-language music, movies, and literature).

4. Music (starting annual salary: $34,000; mid-career annual salary: $52,000)
Hey, if being a musician were easy, everyone would do it. Some of us are guitar heroes; most of us just play the video game.

3. Theology (starting annual salary: $34,800; mid-career annual salary: $51,500)
This is the perfect example of a degree earned by someone who's "not in it for the money": people who choose to study theology often feel they're pursuing a higher calling (and often feel a strong desire to do good in the world, no matter the cost).

2. Elementary education (starting annual salary: $33,000; mid-career annual salary: $42,400)
Specializing in elementary education means a lower median salary than an education degree (number 7).

1. Social work (starting annual salary: $33,400; mid-career annual salary: $41,600)
They say that crime doesn't pay. As this list seems to point out, neither does helping people. So it's a good thing that many college students seem to believe that helping others is its own reward--social workers are an indispensable safety net for people who've fallen on difficult times. And the BLS reports that the outlook for opportunities in this field are favorable--particularly for social workers who work in rural areas or with senior citizens.
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Woohoo! I made the list!
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To eat or not to eat? That is the question.
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jarredscott78 wrote:
7. Education (starting annual salary: $36,200; mid-career annual salary: $54,100)

2. Elementary education (starting annual salary: $33,000; mid-career annual salary: $42,400)


I find these two, in particular, to border on the criminal.
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Several of my closest friends and family don't have four-year degrees and yet make a lot more than this. Some examples: Walgreen's store manager, UPS manager, and three IT professionals. They are two immediate family members and three out of my five closest friends. Their annual salaries range (estimating, but I have a pretty good idea) from $60k to $90k a year. It kind of makes me wonder why people not going for a BS even bother.
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perfalbion wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
7. Education (starting annual salary: $36,200; mid-career annual salary: $54,100)

2. Elementary education (starting annual salary: $33,000; mid-career annual salary: $42,400)


I find these two, in particular, to border on the criminal.


It's also not quite as simple as that when you factor in all of the (unpaid) vacation time. The argument doesn't stop there, though, because it's not like you can go out and get 3 months of equivalent work or heaven forbid 2 weeks every 6 weeks or whatever crazy year round schedule you get stuck with.

We really need to figure this out once and for all such that teachers don't get screwed, but also such that their salaries are correctly set up for apples to apples comparison.
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perfalbion wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
7. Education (starting annual salary: $36,200; mid-career annual salary: $54,100)

2. Elementary education (starting annual salary: $33,000; mid-career annual salary: $42,400)


I find these two, in particular, to border on the criminal.

I agree that these figures are low but I'm not as high on dramatically increasing teachers' salaries as some people are. I've already expressed this in this this forum and had Moshe and a few others tell me how wrong I am about it.

I definitely think elementary teaching is harder than middle and high school teaching if it's done right. The thing is, it's probably even easier to do a bad job and get away with it at that level. I'm not sure about that but it seems like it would be the case.

If I were in charge I would bump up teachers salaries if their salaries were more performance-based and if the grip of the teachers' unions wasn't so tight. Good teachers do deserve more money and I'd like to see THEM get it, not the rest.

We must keep in mind that teachers get summers off and that has to be taken into account when determining their salary. My good friend who teaches high school does home renovations during the summer and earns extra money that way.
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bjlillo wrote:
perfalbion wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
7. Education (starting annual salary: $36,200; mid-career annual salary: $54,100)

2. Elementary education (starting annual salary: $33,000; mid-career annual salary: $42,400)


I find these two, in particular, to border on the criminal.


It's not bad for 9 months of work and retiring with a pension after 30 years.

Even if we call it 10 months of work (add planning weeks, etc.) you still have to figure it two months salary for little to no work.

Last time we discussed this a teacher posted that he needs that time to recover after a difficult school year. I can appreciate that, but I'm sure a lot of the rest of us feel the same way about our jobs and yet we don't get that time, or we don't get it with pay.
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jarredscott78 wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
perfalbion wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
7. Education (starting annual salary: $36,200; mid-career annual salary: $54,100)

2. Elementary education (starting annual salary: $33,000; mid-career annual salary: $42,400)


I find these two, in particular, to border on the criminal.


It's not bad for 9 months of work and retiring with a pension after 30 years.

Even if we call it 10 months of work (add planning weeks, etc.) you still have to figure it two months salary for little to no work.

Last time we discussed this a teacher posted that he needs that time to recover after a difficult school year. I can appreciate that, but I'm sure a lot of the rest of us feel the same way about our jobs and yet we don't get it.


I'm so tired of being tired all the time that I really don't know if I'm going to make it to 30 years. I've worked in different areas but I've never been so tired as when I teach. Many, many, many, many times this year I've asked myself if I can last even another year.

The problem is that I'm a pretty good teacher (I know it doesn't sound humble but I am) The only reason why I stay is because the kids need me.
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jeff brown wrote:


I'm so tired of being tired all the time that I really don't know if I'm going to make it to 30 years. I've worked in different areas but I've never been so tired as when I teach. Many, many, many, many times this year I've asked myself if I can last even another year.

The problem is that I'm a pretty good teacher (I know it doesn't sound humble but I am) The only reason why I stay is because the kids need me.

Maybe you were the person who said that thing last time about being exhausted after a year. Have you ever considered whether you're an introvert and as such you become physically exhausted while speaking in front of a group? We hear a lot about that in personality study courses. Some people get energized by it and some people are drained by it. Teaching might be the wrong job for you if that is the case, and I'm not saying I would be able to do it either.
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jeff brown wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
perfalbion wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
7. Education (starting annual salary: $36,200; mid-career annual salary: $54,100)

2. Elementary education (starting annual salary: $33,000; mid-career annual salary: $42,400)


I find these two, in particular, to border on the criminal.


It's not bad for 9 months of work and retiring with a pension after 30 years.

Even if we call it 10 months of work (add planning weeks, etc.) you still have to figure it two months salary for little to no work.

Last time we discussed this a teacher posted that he needs that time to recover after a difficult school year. I can appreciate that, but I'm sure a lot of the rest of us feel the same way about our jobs and yet we don't get it.


I'm so tired of being tired all the time that I really don't know if I'm going to make it to 30 years. I've worked in different areas but I've never been so tired as when I teach. Many, many, many, many times this year I've asked myself if I can last even another year.

The problem is that I'm a pretty good teacher (I know it doesn't sound humble but I am) The only reason why I stay is because the kids need me.


By the way I think that all professions should get at least 2 months off a year (especially military).
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ejmowrer wrote:
It's also not quite as simple as that when you factor in all of the (unpaid) vacation time. The argument doesn't stop there, though, because it's not like you can go out and get 3 months of equivalent work or heaven forbid 2 weeks every 6 weeks or whatever crazy year round schedule you get stuck with.


That's fine, but since you can't teach without a certificate which just about certainly requires a degree, even if you call it 3/4 of a year's work, they're underpaid. Particularly when we keep talking about how important educating our kids well is. Since they're likely to sink $60,000+ in getting their degree and certification in college (likely loans), then get paid dirt while looking for a full-time placement or going through their required training, the lifetime earnings don't do so good even compared to other professions.

I'll be the first to agree that we need some systematic changes to the education system (I'm not a tenure fan for K-12). But one of the simple tenets of business is that if you want good people, you need to pay to attract them.
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jarredscott78 wrote:
jeff brown wrote:


I'm so tired of being tired all the time that I really don't know if I'm going to make it to 30 years. I've worked in different areas but I've never been so tired as when I teach. Many, many, many, many times this year I've asked myself if I can last even another year.

The problem is that I'm a pretty good teacher (I know it doesn't sound humble but I am) The only reason why I stay is because the kids need me.

Maybe you were the person who said that thing last time about being exhausted after a year. Have you ever considered whether you're an introvert and as such you become physically exhausted while speaking in front of a group? We hear a lot about that in personality study courses. Some people get energized by it and some people are drained by it. Teaching might be the wrong job for you if that is the case, and I'm not saying I would be able to do it either.


That may be part of it, I do have introverted tendencies.

I have asked all of my teacher coworkers when the tiredness goes away. The general consensus is that it doesn't.
 
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bjlillo wrote:
It's not bad for 9 months of work and retiring with a pension after 30 years.


Try actually doing it and see what you think.
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jeff brown wrote:


By the way I think that all professions should get at least 2 months off a year (especially military).

That would be nice although that sounds like some sort of euro-craziness. We Americans need to work 60 hours a week all year to stay ahead of those lazy loafers across the pond!

I don't think our economy is conducive to that sort of arrangement. On an industry-specific basis I would support it though, as long as salaries were adjusted for actual work done. I would oppose instituting two months off a year for military while keeping salaries the same.

Also, individuals should be able to opt in or out of that deal. I'd be willing to bet 90%+ of Americans wouldn't take it because we want the money.
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perfalbion wrote:
But one of the simple tenets of business is that if you want good people, you need to pay to attract them.

Exactly, PLUS you have to reward the stellar performers. Bumping up the pay by 10% across the board while maintaining the current system would do little to improve the output.
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jarredscott78 wrote:
jeff brown wrote:


By the way I think that all professions should get at least 2 months off a year (especially military).

That would be nice although that sounds like some sort of euro-craziness. We Americans need to work 60 hours a week all year to stay ahead of those lazy loafers across the pond!

I don't think our economy is conducive to that sort of arrangement. On an industry-specific basis I would support it though, as long as salaries were adjusted for actual work done. I would oppose instituting two months off a year for military while keeping salaries the same.

I'm not sure I understand why we need to work so much. If our economy isn't conducive to people living their lives then we need to change the economy.

Thinking about the introvert thing, I think it may be more than that, as everyone I know who has even tried teaching talks about how exhausting it is. I heard a statistic that 50% of all teachers drop out of the profession forever within the first 3 years. If it was such good pay for such low work that wouldn't be the case.
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jeff brown wrote:

I'm not sure I understand why we need to work so much.

Need or want, same difference. People are used to it and the lifestyle it provides. It's hard to give up something like financial freedom or expendable income.
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jarredscott78 wrote:

Also, individuals should be able to opt in or out of that deal. I'd be willing to bet 90%+ of Americans wouldn't take it because we want the money.


Shoot, I get 6 weeks of paid vacation a year, and usually will be lucky to take half of it. While I'm allowed to take those 6 weeks, we get so busy when it comes down to the end of the day, when the company looks at who to keep, and who to cut at layoff time, who do you think they spot for cutting? Those who work the extra mile to get the job done, or the one who takes his vacation no matter what?

The U.S. is a tough environment like that.
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jarredscott78 wrote:
I don't think our economy is conducive to that sort of arrangement.


I bet you it would adjust. Germany and England's did, and they're per capita GDP isn't so far from ours. France's too. And all three have GINI coefficients that are lower than ours, which some would consider good (others would call it a communist-pinko measurement).
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jarredscott78 wrote:
jeff brown wrote:

I'm not sure I understand why we need to work so much.

Need or want, same difference. People are used to it and the lifestyle it provides. It's hard to give up something like financial freedom or expendable income.

What people don't realize is that you can have financial freedom, and the time off. I've been able to survive as a teacher just fine. I've never complained about the pay just the amount of energy required. As I've talked elsewhere, time may add more to satisfaction than increased income as well.
 
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perfalbion wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
I don't think our economy is conducive to that sort of arrangement.


I bet you it would adjust. Germany and England's did, and they're per capita GDP isn't so far from ours. France's too. And all three have GINI coefficients that are lower than ours, which some would consider good (others would call it a communist-pinko measurement).

Okay, but is the adjustment something we actually want? I'm skeptical.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:

Also, individuals should be able to opt in or out of that deal. I'd be willing to bet 90%+ of Americans wouldn't take it because we want the money.


Shoot, I get 6 weeks of paid vacation a year, and usually will be lucky to take half of it. While I'm allowed to take those 6 weeks, we get so busy when it comes down to the end of the day, when the company looks at who to keep, and who to cut at layoff time, who do you think they spot for cutting? Those who work the extra mile to get the job done, or the one who takes his vacation no matter what?

The U.S. is a tough environment like that.


I wonder if this would change if demand in the job market changed. What attracts workers now the most is money. If people didn't want as much money but more time off, than I think companies would change in order to attract the most qualified people. Especially if this is what the most qualified people demanded.
 
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jeff brown wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
jeff brown wrote:

I'm not sure I understand why we need to work so much.

Need or want, same difference. People are used to it and the lifestyle it provides. It's hard to give up something like financial freedom or expendable income.

What people don't realize is that you can have financial freedom, and the time off. I've been able to survive as a teacher just fine. I've never complained about the pay just the amount of energy required. As I've talked elsewhere, time may add more to satisfaction than increased income as well.

I really respect your living within your means and your satisfaction with your salary. I must be more selfish or materialistic than you are because I require quite a bit of income to satisfy my cravings. It makes me feel guilty sometimes, but it's sort of my own pendulum-effect after growing up poor-ish and constantly stressing out about family finances as a kid. I even get it sympathetically for others and I have to stop myself from buying too many people too much stuff.

I have a feeling that a lot of Americans for a lot of varying reasons won't be willing to give up what they're used to having, much like myself.
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jarredscott78 wrote:
Okay, but is the adjustment something we actually want? I'm skeptical.


Depends. There's some studies on quality of life around that make me think it's at least worth considering. But then, the social programs and hiring rules that go along with their systems can hurt innovation and entrepreneurship. "The best" is probably somewhere in the middle.

Certainly, the American public isn't ready for it. Tell them something's a European political import and it's pretty much DOA.
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