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Subject: Need some tactics advice for the Overseer rss

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Brian M
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Enjoying the game so far, but its been tough on the poor monsters.

The heroes usually get torn up a bit in the second room, when you hit nasty monsters and don't yet have items, but then it goes downhill. With an elf that can move and shoot or a thief sneaking around invisibly or a barbarian just getting a lot of chances to rage, it seems hard to get in more than one solid round of attacks on the heroes.

In the last room, the monsters almost always face the dreaded teleport-rage barbarian attack. Ouch.

Any tactics people have found to effectively stomp those pesky heroes?
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Scott Yost
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Make sure you're running teleport-rage correctly - chain shots can't hit the same creature twice in a row. So you can damage 4 different monsters or ping pong between two of them to kill two monsters, but you can't pile four damage on the overlord out of the gate. That mistake made the last room a lot weaker than it should be for us.
 
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John Harwood
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It's usually a good idea to not have too many monsters clustered in a manner that the teleport/rage combo can completely take out a room. Doesn't mean you need to have everyone cowering behind pillars or anything, just make sure that there are some pillars between your monster clusters so you're only risking 2-3 at a time. In the final room, if the barb ports in and runs amok, it often winds up with said barb being killed shortly afterward if you're setup so that he can't wipe the room in one go.
 
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Brian Brokaw
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Also, make sure you are playing Rage correctly. 2 for the whole game. You can buy 1 additional, but they don't restock each room.
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Brian M
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Yes. we're using the rues correctly as far as I know. Yes, the Barbarian sometimes doesn't live long after an end-room berserk rampage - but with all the minions dead, that's not too serious

Quote:
So you can damage 4 different monsters or ping pong between two of them to kill two monsters...

Or you can do a ricochet shot and hit more than one monster at a time

Maybe part of it is that we're long time Crokinole players, and the heroes have more opportunity for hitting multiple monsters than the monsters have for hitting multiple heroes...

Any suggestions for setting monsters up?
 
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Cameron Chien
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One thing you can do is use the weaker monsters to move the stronger monsters up into position to bring the pain on. A lot of times the heroes will move into a position and think, "Okay, well the spider can't hit me here..." only to have the Overlord use a weak monster to flick the spider out into the open...and in striking range.

Edit: You can also add more rooms or harder rooms to tailor the difficulty level.

Cameron
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Chris Funk
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Zeede wrote:
One thing you can do is use the weaker monsters to move the stronger monsters up into position to bring the pain on. A lot of times the heroes will move into a position and think, "Okay, well the spider can't hit me here..." only to have the Overlord use a weak monster to flick the spider out into the open...and in striking range.

Edit: You can also add more rooms or harder rooms to tailor the difficulty level.

Cameron


I use this tactic a lot. devil
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Tobias Moos
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Zeede wrote:
You can also add more rooms or harder rooms to tailor the difficulty level.


Exactly. The dungeon in the rulebook is even labeled as the beginners dungeon. If you're getting more experienced (or in your case already start experienced), nothing hinders you to replace those two lvl 1 rooms towards the end with lvl 2 ones. Or add more of those.

Enjoy!

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Brian M
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Well, actually, its labeled as a "basic" dungeon, which I would assume means its the standard set-up. I would assume that's intended to give a balanced game between the heroes and the overseer; pretty silly if not!

Do you think the base game isn't well balanced?

Since other reports seem to indicate games going the other way, I'm assuming there's probably some clever tactics they are using as the overseer that we haven't stumbled on.

Or maybe there are good hero tactics that they haven't stumbled on...
 
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Tobias Moos
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StormKnight wrote:
Well, actually, its labeled as a "basic" dungeon, which I would assume means its the standard set-up.


hmm. this might be a language thing. as english is not my first language, i might have understood it wrong. to me basic sounded like 'the basic', like something you start with. so i automatically assumed that means starter dungeon.

StormKnight wrote:
Do you think the base game isn't well balanced?


after four games (2 wins for the heroes, 2 for the overseer), i would say the base game is good balanced for beginners. it seems as the players are getting better (means, getting more practice with the flicking), the basic setup is getting a bit too easy (the last game was a crushing victory for the heroes). i assume for you as seasoned crokinole this might already be the case after the first game.

however, even if this is gonna be the case, i wouldn't mind and just adjust the difficulty of the dungeon. i don't have the game in front of me right now, but i'm pretty sure the designers mentioned something that the game should be looked at as a framework with lots of possibilities to change and adjust. like they already did with the free "expansion" here on BGG. i understand that some people want to play a game exactly the way it is written in the rule book, me on the other hand don't mind to 'mod' a game so it fits to our play style.

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Cameron Chien
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The game definitely begs to be tinkered with, especially with regards to the dungeon setup. I actually had the game setup with two level 2 rooms after the Healer, but dropped one of them when the heroes ran into a lot of trouble in the first room after the Healer.

I've found that adding rooms lengthens the game play, increasing the difficulty of the room CAN make it harder on the heroes.

Cameron
 
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Brian M
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Quote:
...say the base game is good balanced for beginners.

Sorry if I'm harping on this, but this still seems like an odd statement. Do you think there is a steeper learning curve for either heroes or overlord?

The "players getting better" should improve the play on both sides of the game. But it may be that the basic setup favors the heroes, but the heroes initially have a steeper learning curve, since they must balance resources and decide when to use special abilities.

If this is the case, I wonder what a balanced setup for experienced players would be like.
 
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Chris Farrell
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My initial impression was also certainly that it was pretty easy on the players. My group breezed through and while they had a few tense moments, they were never seriously in danger of losing. But ... we misplayed the Barbarian's rage (he starts with 2, not 3) and also screwed up the Ghouls (they do damage as well as paralysis). Still.

But it seems easy enough to tweak without any fundamental changes to the game. Just ditch the first 0-level room and make it a 1. Ditch the last 1-level room and make it a 2. That's what I plan to do next time.

I think it can also be pretty swingy based on the monster layout. My group got a fairly weak second room with a bunch of flunkies, no heavy hitter, and no cover for me to set up in, which was a cash bonanza - just slam your piece across the board and watch it ricochet off of three or four bad guys, racking up cash (my take-away lesson: if you have a horde, line them up in a straight line across the board to avoid losing too many to wild shots). Smaller encounters with tougher monsters are more interesting, I think.
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Chris Farrell
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One other thing, people have different opinions on what "balanced" means for this sort of game. Some people might think a 20% Overlord win rate, some might think 50%, whatever. My personal preference is that in a co-op like this, the cooperative team should have to earn it, and I'd prefer to err in favor of Overlord, with him winning more than his fare share of the early games since there is seems more scope for the players to improve their tactics. And you want to keep the cooperative side hungry. That's why I plan to jack up the difficulty next time by increasing the strength of some of the encounters.
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Brian M
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Just played a few more games tonight; all hero wins, with assortments of new players. That's a bit of a bummer; it would be nice if the game were even out of the box.

Chris - we've either been playing 2 player or splitting the overseer side with a bigger group, so both sides have a team. Another bummer was that it wasn't designed better for play that way from the start. I really wish people would get over the tradition that the monster side (which usually has a lot more pieces) should only be controlled by one player in this sort of game.

Fun game, but I'm really sorry this is a question of balance and not skill.
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JonGetsGames
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I don't have a huge data set myself, but in the 2 games played last night (with 10 total players, 5 in one and a different 5 in the other) the overlord crushed the heroes both times. In both cases the heroes entered the final room with one man dead already, and it was just damn hard. That bieng said, I am pretty sure none of these 10 (with the exception of one overlord I think) have experience AT ALL with flicking games. Our shots were all over the place and just horrible. I was the barbarian and died in the room before the sorceror due to a bad flick that landed me in between 2 scorpions and a fire demon. God that sucked...

anyway it seemed balanced to me, and by that i mean the heroes had to fight and fight to keep in the game and ultimately lost. I think with a few games to get the dexterity down it will become much closer.

We were all thinking it made more sense to swap the healer position to right before the final boss instead of having a lvl 2 dungeon in between in which both games had a player die. I won't tweek anything for a while though, my copy of the game shipped this morning!
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Michael Edwards
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Older thread I know, but just adding my own experiences now that I finally got to play a couple of games.

In both games, the heroes made it to the Overlord, but died there. One of the games I was playing the Overlord - and I have previous dex game experience (Carabande). In the other, a different player was the Overlord, but he is pretty good at flicking.

My current desire it to try it with the person considered the worst flicker as overlord, and see if that helps the heroes out…
 
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Joe DAgostino
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Under variants:

Allow the Overseer to Remove/Replace the 'barriers' at will

Any player 'falling'(ending in or over a pit) into a Pit Trap takes 1 damage and ends their turn. Elevate the board for a more realistic effect.

That'll make those hard shooting barbarians take pause.
 
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Joe DAgostino
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I'm finding more and more the heroes can just ignore the mobs and kill the boss.

My only hope seems to be playing very mean and killing one or more heroes before the boss room. I'm just to nice I guess.

There's not much defense in the game.
 
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Roger Roger
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Fairly new to the genre (havent played many board games, and first of this type). After a few rounds, seemed to be a 50/50 split between Hero's and Overseer taking turns on who was playing which.

There is a learning curve to both sides, and on my first time playing a hero I got destroyed in the room after the merchant, didn't even make it to the catacomb boss.

For an 'out of the box, accessible layout' as per the rules, I think seems fairly balanced for newer players. The game just begs to be tweaked with in terms of how to lay out the cards, using a maze layout, etc.

If the skill set of your players is leaning things in an unfair favour of one side or the other - don't see why you cant tweak the card layout to balance things out.

Aren't games supposed to be fun/challenging to all players involved? If the provided layout isn't providing that - change it so it does.
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