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Subject: My new races and powers rss

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Rusty Shackelford
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Ok never done this before(and actually about to create a topic asking about how to start making custom chits)so know they may need some balancing and someone else may have come up with something similar. Also want to note I pretty much only play with my wife, so I am used to 2 player small world not larger games. Hopefully people find at least a few ideas usable.


New Powers
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Defensive - Roll a die before someone invades you, apply the dice to your defense and your opponent has the option of increasing his tokens or retreating but losing the use of one of his troops(for that turn)

Prosperous - For every 3 spaces you control at turn end gain an extra troop .

Fishing - Gain 1 coin for every 2 water spaces you have conquered land next to

Gambler - At turn end roll the dice and gain 1 coin + a coin for what you roll

Vengeful - When an opponet conquers a space you control put a burn token down, that space will not provide a coin for 2(3?)turns.

Mountain - 1 extra coin for mountain spaces

Explosive - When an enemy takes a space from you roll a die, if you roll a 2 or a 3 a bomb goes off in your opponents face and he losses a troop.


New Races
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Race - Chameleon - Chameleons only take 1 starting troop and have no special ability. However they take two powers from the box instead of one. This means both how many troops they take as well as their special abilities are determined by 2 chits instead of 1. I think this race could make for both a fun single race variant, but also a fun new way to play Small World where instead of playing with the various races you just play with all Chameleons(meaning every possible race is made up of 2 random mods).

Race - Pirate -When you successfully attack an opponent roll a die, if you roll a 1 take a coin, if you roll a 3 you have the option to take a coin a special token from them. There would be a limit though that you you may never take more then half of their special tokens though. So for instance if the other player had a race with the Dragon abilty you could never steal the dragon, but you could steal 1 hero token from a different player or half of another players troll layers. I could see this being horribly over powered in multi player, but as I said we largely play 2 player so I think it would be fairly balanced and very cool.

Race - Fairy - Ok this one is still total concept and would take a TON of balancing work. The idea for the Fairy race is that they would get a very large number of troops like 25-30, however in return they would require you to attack and defend with more chits then normal. By this I mean if another race could take over a space for 3 tokens it would take the fairies like 5 or 6 and fairies would have to defend with 3 tokens(and if conquered you loose 3 instead of 1). Think of them as Kobolds taken to the extreme, you get far more troops then even the Kobolds, but it takes extra troops to take over a space and not only does it take extra to defend it but you loose more chits then usual.

Anyways, these are the ideas I have come up with. If people have input I am happy to hear it if its constructive, just realize that as I said I have not play tested these yet and I am used to playing 2 player games so that is what these powers were intended to be played in. Outside criticism I would love to hear how people go about creating custom chits to actually be able to play with!

Thanks!
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Eric Bridge
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Thanks for these ideas. Keep in mind that you need a suggested number of tokens that would come with each race AND power. Those numbers of troops are a good balancing factor for weaker or stronger powers (i.e. only 2 tokens for Merchant).

Of these suggestions, I like the Gambling idea, but it needs to come with risk (like all gambling does). Something like "At the end of each turn, you MAY roll the dice. If a blank is rolled, lose 1 token. If a number is rolled, gain 1 + that number of coins." Would this work?

Potential problems - If you do something like Prosperous, where will those troops come from? There are only so many for each race. Perhaps you meant gain a coin for every 3 regions you control?

Thanks again.

 
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Rusty Shackelford
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Well for gamble I guess it costing you a coin to gamble would make sense, but I would think of uping the rewards as well. I mean when you think about it there are 3 blanks on the die and 3 numbers. This means there is a fair chance your going to lose not gain money every roll. Meanwhile taking other VP related powers such as wealthy give you guaranteed points. As it stands in a 2 player game you tend to only get 2-3 rounds before you have to go into decline again, so at absoulute best case scenario you are going to get 12 VPs from gamble, but more likely is rolling a negative or two meaning you end up with anywhere between -3 and 5ish VPs. Thats nowhere near worth the risk. So maybe you make it so its 2 coins + the number you roll? So you get 3 coins if you roll a 1, 4 for a 2 and 5 for a 3. That means absolute best case scenario you get 15 VPs from gamble, but most likely you will get between 4 and 7 off of it.

As for prosperous we really do not mind taking other races out of the box and using them as troops for our current race, so no I really did mean take a new troop not take a VP. However, you could easily play prosperous the way I intended and create one thats VPs instead of troops and call it fruitful.
 
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JonnyRotten
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Prosperous could work like this: Start with 4 units + race amount. For every 3 areas controlled at turn end, take a counter, and add it to your troops. This counter is a extra unit until the race is declined. Once declined, if the counter is the only unit in an area, the area is abandoned.

Gamblers - At the end of each turn, you may pay between 1 and 5 victory points. Roll the die. You gain a number of VP = your bet TIMES the die roll. If you rolled a black face, you gain 0 ( as 0 x X = 0 ). IIRC, the die is 3 blank faces, 1 1 pip, 1 2 pip, and 1 3 pip. If you risk 5 VPs, you have the following odds (roughly):
50% - Lose 5VP
16.7% - Gain 0 VP (get your 5 back)
16.7% - Gain 5 VP
16.7% - Gain 10 VP

Vengeful - Instead of not providing any VPs, what if the space was treated as though it had no traits at all. IE. If it was a mountain with a underworld cave then, no Def bonus, no Giants bonus, no underworld bonus.


Personally, I feel that races are a bit harder to do, but your's sound pretty neat so far.

The only comment I really have, is that the Fairy race sounds quite close to the way the Kobolds (I think, or Goblins, don't have my game handy.. heh.) from the expansion work. Where they have alot more units, but also have to keep twice as many in an area.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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jgilmour wrote:
Gamblers - At the end of each turn, you may pay between 1 and 5 victory points. Roll the die. You gain a number of VP = your bet TIMES the die roll. If you rolled a black face, you gain 0 ( as 0 x X = 0 ). IIRC, the die is 3 blank faces, 1 1 pip, 1 2 pip, and 1 3 pip. If you risk 5 VPs, you have the following odds (roughly):
50% - Lose 5VP
16.7% - Gain 0 VP (get your 5 back)
16.7% - Gain 5 VP
16.7% - Gain 10 VP


So this is a power with an expected value of 0.
 
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Chad Weaver
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Golux13 wrote:
jgilmour wrote:
Gamblers - At the end of each turn, you may pay between 1 and 5 victory points. Roll the die. You gain a number of VP = your bet TIMES the die roll. If you rolled a black face, you gain 0 ( as 0 x X = 0 ). IIRC, the die is 3 blank faces, 1 1 pip, 1 2 pip, and 1 3 pip. If you risk 5 VPs, you have the following odds (roughly):
50% - Lose 5VP
16.7% - Gain 0 VP (get your 5 back)
16.7% - Gain 5 VP
16.7% - Gain 10 VP


So this is a power with an expected value of 0.


That still doesn't invalidate it though. The player who takes this will need to know the approximate scores of each player, which isn't always the case. For someone in the lead, they have to be aware to keep their bets small. For someone trailing late in the game, it can be a "hail mary" pass. It's a little like hitting the second daily double late in Double Jeopardy.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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chadw09 wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
jgilmour wrote:
Gamblers - At the end of each turn, you may pay between 1 and 5 victory points. Roll the die. You gain a number of VP = your bet TIMES the die roll. If you rolled a black face, you gain 0 ( as 0 x X = 0 ). IIRC, the die is 3 blank faces, 1 1 pip, 1 2 pip, and 1 3 pip. If you risk 5 VPs, you have the following odds (roughly):
50% - Lose 5VP
16.7% - Gain 0 VP (get your 5 back)
16.7% - Gain 5 VP
16.7% - Gain 10 VP


So this is a power with an expected value of 0.


That still doesn't invalidate it though. The player who takes this will need to know the approximate scores of each player, which isn't always the case. For someone in the lead, they have to be aware to keep their bets small. For someone trailing late in the game, it can be a "hail mary" pass. It's a little like hitting the second daily double late in Double Jeopardy.


(Except that the Daily Double isn't purely luck-based. You have to get the question right.) I can't help but think that almost any other power is going to give you something you know you can use to your benefit -- a conquering bonus, bonus points, extra tokens, etc. -- whereas this gives you a random shot at something, with a 50% chance of losing and an overall expected value of nothing. I just don't see how it's worth taking.
 
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JonnyRotten
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Well, if there is no chance at all at a lose, then its not really gambling is it?
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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jgilmour wrote:
Well, if there is no chance at all at a lose, then its not really gambling is it?


Right. But if I want to play a gambling game, it won't be Small World. If I want to try to win Small World, I won't be taking a race that relies on Gambling with an expected value of 0, unless the racial ability makes it otherwise worthwhile. The Gambling power has effectively no value beyond the number of tokens it adds.
 
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JonnyRotten
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Golux13 wrote:
jgilmour wrote:
Well, if there is no chance at all at a lose, then its not really gambling is it?


Right. But if I want to play a gambling game, it won't be Small World. If I want to try to win Small World, I won't be taking a race that relies on Gambling with an expected value of 0, unless the racial ability makes it otherwise worthwhile. The Gambling power has effectively no value beyond the number of tokens it adds.




My apologies.

I suppose if you somehow printed this one out, took the time to craft it up, put it in your copy of the game, and it eventually came out, you could always just not get that race.
I on the other hand, could see a situation where I may buy it, as a chance at a 15 point VP swing in desperate times appeals to me.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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jgilmour wrote:
My apologies.

I suppose if you somehow printed this one out, took the time to craft it up, put it in your copy of the game, and it eventually came out, you could always just not get that race.
I on the other hand, could see a situation where I may buy it, as a chance at a 15 point VP swing in desperate times appeals to me.


Four points about that:

1. Surely you wouldn't take it if it was anywhere but the top (free) spot? Because if you had to pay to get it, it would be worth less than the expected 0 points.

2. If you're doing poorly enough that you think you need a 15 points swing to win the game, then have at it. But consider this: How often do you find yourself in that position? One time in X -- you figure out what X is. Then multiply 1/X times 1/6, because that's how many times you will actually win in that situation.

3. Speaking of which, I don't think it's much fun to play the whole game and then lose on a single die roll. Or to win on a single die roll, for that matter. Suppose you played a whole game, then your opponent said "OK, now we'll decide the game by rolling this die. On a 3, you win. On anything else, you lose." Is that fun for you? Not for me.

4. Save the disapproving kittens and the sarcasm. I know I don't ever have to play it. That's not the point of my post. My point was this: As currently written, the Gambling power has an expected value of zero. Not only that, the best payout is 3-to-1, with odds of 5-to-1 against. If you like those odds, come and play poker with me some time. That's not "gambling," that's "losing."

Which is not to say the concept is without merit. I'm sure someone could come up with a better -- higher-value -- mechanism for implementing the idea. Perhaps the payout structure could be changed to reflect the odds better, or it could be tied to the number of tokens or occupied regions the race has. I don't know, and the idea doesn't interest me enough to try to work it out. If it interests you enough, knock yourself out.
 
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