Justin Fitzgerald
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There is currently a fairly big scare and need to share information and advice on how to deal with a potentially fraudulent eBay seller. The "great deal" was posted on BGG and lured buyers in. Buyers who, most people feel, are unlikely to get their games. It's questionable whether refunds will arrive or not:

1st thread locked: Tigris & Euphrates for $26.13 , Railways of the World for 35.00, free shipping on eBay (T&E, ROTW sold out, other games still available)
2nd thread locked: gbjauctions - Real or fake? Locked. Final reports were "most people think fraud, an account claiming to be his wife showed up and said she was giving out refunds"

The 1st thread was producing really great information about the seller. During the search for information, one user found out that another user was publicly stating on BGG "Buyer beware" while plotting to buy a skid worth of games from the seller. He was called out and the thread was locked promptly. In this case, I could understand why the thread was locked as the community basically started attacking someone, whether right or wrong. However, the information in the thread was extremely important for those who bought and paid for product.

I started a second thread. Further investigation and communication about the seller happened, in a more civil manner. Then, towards the end of the thread, a user very inappropriately posted a picture of the guy and later a user posted a picture of his wife. A couple users (fueled by the anger of being part of a likely fraud) used the opportunity to insult the appearance of the sellers. The community promptly corrected the inappropriateness and most posts involved were edited.

Then an account supposedly belonging to his wife logs in and start responding to comments. We have no idea if it is her or not but it emotionally charges many readers. Most apologize and give encouraging comments like "I just want my games, thanks for taking care of it." However, one user basically continues to go apeshit on her about the number of children she has and her carbon footprint. Shortly after, the thread is locked by Octavian.

But (I felt) oddly, rather than deal with the couple of users involved in seriously negative behavior -- really, in either thread -- the thread got shut down.

In my opinion, locking an important thread is not a good way to deal with this. Particularly since the information in this threads is helpful for buyers to understand whether there actually will be product shipped or refunds provided. Furthermore, because advice is being offered on the most effective tactics to use to get a refund.

So, I ask, why would you lock this thread? Twice?! Secondly, why not deal with the users who were clearly out of line and remove their clearly out of line posts instead?

I'm trying to be objective and not angry about it. It worries me that the approach has the same general problem as the blanket removal of image comments. It's like "I, the admin, need to do something but rather than do the right thing, I'll instead just ruin it for everyone because of one (or a small group's) actions."

Can you help me understand why this approach is being applied and allow the community an opportunity to express their feelings on it?
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Dennis Bingham
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I agree, simply locking it was the worst of choices. Deleting personal attacks would've been better and left the thread "workable".

I opened another one just for tracking information of my package and hope it stays clean.
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Eddie Mittelstedt
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Please post a link to the new thread so I can follow it, as I've a financial interest in this drama as well.
 
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Dennis Bingham
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BugLaden wrote:
Please post a link to the new thread so I can follow it, as I've a financial interest in this drama as well.


http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/524749/tracking-of-certa...
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ScYcS wrote:
I agree, simply locking it was the worst of choices. Deleting personal attacks would've been better and left the thread "workable".


I agree that locking threads is a poor response to bad behavior, but it is also the best one available and one that makes the most sense. It is unreasonable to expect Octavian (or whichever admin) to be responsible for culling the bad posts out of a thread. First of all, it has got to be an overwhelming task already to moderate this extremely active forum and trying to split thread postings out on a post-by-post basis for adjudication strikes me as excessively pedantic. Second of all, with all of the complaining about the unfairness of how the Terms of Service are applied unevenly and unfairly around here, you can see how opening the door to arguments about why one post was deleted and another one that was a border case was not could be a headache that no one wants to take on willingly.

That said, I completely understand your frustration about losing out on the part of the discussion that you feel was imparting valuable information. The best response from you, imo, is open another thread. I suggest being clear up front about what you are trying to do. Say that you care about the discussion that's going on but that you understand that there's no room for the poor behavior that's going on. Contact an admin directly and try to outline your purpose in creating a new thread. In this situation, it seems to me that the locking of the threads is more about the specific threads that were running off the rails rather than making the entire topic of discussion verboten.

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with BGG in any way. I am not an admin and I have received no permission for my opinion. Fortunately, I don't wait for permission to formulate my own opinions.
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Fair enough. My point in suggesting that you contact an admin was more to point of letting the admins know that you are not attempting to get around the previous locking in order to troll by opening a new thread. I was trying to say that having one thread locked (or even two) does not necessarily imply that the topic cannot be discussed. Of course, if you take that stance and you continue to open threads after an admin locks them, that behavior could be construed as inappropriate, which is why I suggest contacting an admin to head off having your new threads locked for the wrong reasons.

I'm not saying that the admins should ignore problem users either. Any posts that warrant repercussions should have a response from the admins to those users. I'm only trying to say that going through a thread and deleting this post, but not that post is opening a can of worms.

Finally, you are correct that I do not at all have a stake in this particular discussion and I understand that there are others that most certainly do and I sincerely hope that things work out well for all parties concerned. Mostly, I was hoping to suggest a course of action for you.

Or to put it all very succinctly: If the admins locked your thread, open a new one. But be careful about how you go about doing that.

Good luck to you all!
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Evan Stegman
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KakarisMaelstrom wrote:
...

Then, as a new "get people emotional", the seller's wife logs in and starts responding to these comments (i.e. trolling). ...


As far as I could see, she was not trolling.

Trolling is purposely posting something inflammatory for the purpose of getting people riled up.

As far as I could see, she was just responding to OTHER people's inflammatory comments. She may have been a bit emotional and defensive, but I don't blame her consider the despicable comments people made about her and her husband's appearance and judging them for the size of their family.

Getting emotional when people attack your family in ways totally unrelated to the subject at hand is not trolling.
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Evan Stegman
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KakarisMaelstrom wrote:
Unless the purpose was to rile people up. We frankly don't even know that the account claiming to be James was James or if the wife account was actually his wife. It could be someone who logged in to jerk everyone's collective chains about a subject they were already emotional about.

However ... I'll edit my original post to omit this statement as it is a matter of opinion, not fact.


And to know if that was the purpose, you'd have to be a mind reader as I saw no evidence of that. Only that SHE was riled up by other people's comments.

Honestly, when I saw that in your original post and this suggesting she was trying to get people riled up when I see no evidence of it made me think you are too wrapped up in this to look at this objectively.

But kudos for being objective enough about yourself and your statements to be able to recognize 'trolling' is at least debatable enough to remove it. Many on these forums lack that level of self awareness and humility and would instead fight tooth and nail defending it.
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Matthew M
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For reference, I have no problem with new threads being opened. The subject itself was not a problem, but the threads they were in had degenerated (despite moderation).

Sorry for any confusion or frustration caused by the lock.

-MMM
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Karl Rainer
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I would also like to point out that the admins DO send PRIVATE messages to users warning them about their conduct, suspending their priviledges, and addressing inappropriate posts.

However, as it should be, they do not make these messages public. Much moderation could have been happening without us seeing it in public, and I am just fine with that.
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David C
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I need to vent. I think the geeklist has what we need to know, objectively, handled. So I don't want to ruin this by getting this thread locked...but I'm going to risk it... and I honestly think I'm being reasonable here. Please delete this post and let me know that you did (so I don't go crazy) if I go too far.

I just have one (ok, three) questions here:


Why?! Why?! why?!

I mean, if I were running a situation that I might have to refund, say, 90% of the people who bought a given product... boardgames would be way way way down on my list. It's just...silly.


Next up: If my boss asked me to do something, and I said, "man, I have a life outside of work, you know." ...well, I think we know how that would turn-out. If the life outside of work was maybe a baby coming due, I'm sure he'd let it slide. If the life outside of work was finding more problems, he would probably let me deal with those too---as my new full-time job.

It sucks that I have to read into the next auction I find with 41 copies of railways of the world.

(I did find 10 copies of steam on an auction for 42 bucks, shipped. Good price, but not so good I'm going to violate my 4 months probation)
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David C
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One thing I have to say is that the price-point was perfect. 10 bucks in either direction would have had me saying either, "that's not so good I need to pounce on it now" or, "there's no way this is legit"
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James Megee
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Ah NUTS.... I was waiting till my dispute was 100% complete before I left feedback. Even though I would have said the same thing. BUT, I shouldn't have waited to leave feedback! Go to Ebay and you will see this message:

Sorry, you cannot leave Feedback since the member is no longer a registered eBay user.
 
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Rick Vinyard
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A dark conclusion to this whole matter:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/8981170#8981170
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Ron D
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rvinyard wrote:
A dark conclusion to this whole matter:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/8981170#8981170


That is really, terribly sad. My heart goes out to those poor kids.
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Jason Clague
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Wow. I read all these threads as the title "Recently a thread was locked..." tricked me into thinking this thread was, you know, recent.

And now...

Mind=Blown.
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Justin Fitzgerald
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This is one of those times where I really hate to say "told you so" but I am really glad I we worked so hard on getting the word out and helping a few less people get screwed by this guy.
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Jacob H. T.
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KakarisMaelstrom wrote:
This is one of those times where I really hate to say "told you so" but I am really glad I worked so hard on getting the word out and helping a few less people get screwed by this guy.


I get the impression you do like saying "told you so."

I don't remember anyone saying this man was capable of horriffic acts against his own family. I think we agreed this man was awful, but no one should have expected this.
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Justin Fitzgerald
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Well of course not, but we weren't discussing sex abuse at the time either. We were discussing whether people were going to get their games or not.
 
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David C
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KakarisMaelstrom wrote:
Well of course not, but we weren't discussing sex abuse at the time either. We were discussing whether people were going to get screwed or not.


FTFY
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Simon Lundström
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All I can say is that
1) I can pretty much picture the guy behind all this. Either a super-skilled actor, or the kind, nice guy that is clumsy, impulsive and that seems to get in trouble all the time (know a few of those, they are great people… but don't do business with them)
2) This was a couple of hours of pure entertainment, following these threads. No, I mean it. I feel like I've been watching a suspense movie.

Edit: I had not read the more-than-dark conclusion when I wrote the above, so please read it as such. I have now read it and though the story still qualifies as a good suspense, I wouldn't label it "entertainment" any more. Also, I've pretty much changed my opinion on the guy behind this.
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Kenny VenOsdel
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ScYcS wrote:
I agree, simply locking it was the worst of choices. Deleting personal attacks would've been better and left the thread "workable".

I opened another one just for tracking information of my package and hope it stays clean.


Certainly the admins starting to delete threads that they deem cross the line is a much worse situation than them locking threads. If the information is there and people still need to deal with the "wife" they can geekmail her directly.
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