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Subject: Up to 3 actions per turn, BUT NOT THE SAME ONES! rss

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EDIT: Disregard my ramblings on this, I've been proven wrong.

My two gaming partners and I played this for the first time tonight.

One of the first questions that came up is whether the three actions per turn that are allowed to be performed by each player can be three of the same action types, or whether they have to be 3 different actions.

In other words, can a player place 2 or 3 properties in one turn, place 2 or 3 money/action cards into his bank pile or play 2-3 action cards into the center?

We agreed that players are limited to performing 1 action of each type per turn.
That is, players may only place 1 property card in front of them and/or place 1 money/action card into their bank pile and/or play 1 action card into the center.

And that is actually exactly what the rules state, quote:

...Play your 3 cards in any combination of the following: A, B and/or C, in any order...

A) PUT MONEY/ACTION CARDS INTO YOUR OWN BANK

AND/OR

B) PUT DOWN PROPERTIES INTO YOUR OWN COLLECTION

AND/OR

C) PLAY ACTION CARDS INTO THE CENTER


Nowhere is it stated or implied in any way shape or form that any of these three actions may be performed more than once per player turn.

It is very important to note the "AND/OR" inbetween the three options, since it clearly indicates that each option may only be performed once per turn!

I've read some of the rules questions that have been posted here and a large number of them stem from the confusion caused by allowing any of these three actions to be performed more than once per turn.

I think the confusion stems from a misinterpretation of the phrase "Play your 3 cards in any combination of the following: A, B and/or C, in any order...".
This only means that you can do A and B, or A and C, or A B and C, or B and C, or whatever other combinations there are, in any order, but not more than 1 type of each action per player per turn.
In other words, you can't do more than one A, one B or one C action on any one turn.

Other than that, there are numerous other issues with this game and the way the rules are written, but I just wanted to add my two cents to this one for now.
 
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Doug Oh
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Da Debil wrote:

...Play your 3 cards in any combination of the following: A, B and/or C, in any order...

A) PUT MONEY/ACTION CARDS INTO YOUR OWN BANK

AND/OR

B) PUT DOWN PROPERTIES INTO YOUR OWN COLLECTION

AND/OR

C) PLAY ACTION CARDS INTO THE CENTER


Nowhere is it stated or implied in any way shape or form that any of these three actions may be performed more than once per player turn.



I agree that it could be phrased better. My take:

Each of A) B) and C) states very clearly "CARDS"/"PROPERTIES" -- plural.

To me, "Any Combination" of A and/or B and/or C includes:
AAA, AAB, ... and so on.

An example is given on the back: Double the Rent: Play with a Rent
card to ...

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Jonathan Tang
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Are you asking for validation that you read the rules correctly?
Because you seem quite certain that you ARE indeed playing correctly.

So whats the problem?
 
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dw5k wrote:
I agree that it could be phrased better. My take:

Each of A) B) and C) states very clearly "CARDS"/"PROPERTIES" -- plural.

To me, "Any Combination" of A and/or B and/or C includes:
AAA, AAB, ... and so on.

An example is given on the back: Double the Rent: Play with a Rent
card to ...

The plurality of the wording is not necessarily a reference to how many cards a player may play - I think it is not. I think it's only a reference to the various cards a player holds in his hand.

As for the Double the Rent card, since this card is "played with" a normal rent card, playing both cards only counts as one action.

I know I've only played this once, but it seems that there is a Pandoras Box of problems that are created if any of the 3 possible actions are allowed to be performed more than once per player per turn.
Consider all the rules problems that disappear when you play it my way.
 
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Aaron Brooks
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Of course you can put multiple cards into your bank. I have had many situations where I had no property cards in my hand. By your interpretation, I wouldn't be able to play three cards. I can also think of lots of problems when you can only do each action once:

How much harder would it be to get rid of your entire hand so you could draw new cards? Your way, it's practically impossible.

If you play a Go card, you can't play any further actions that turn? Half the time, I play a Go card hoping to get a better action card.

Almost impossible to go out in a big flurry, a la Rummy, since you're only going to be able to play one single property down.

IMO, you may be correct in your rules interpretation, but the game you play is a lot slower and not as chaotic. It is probably a deeper game, though, I'll give you that.
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J.
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Yeah, you can play any combination of the possible actions, AAA, AAB, AAC, BBC, BBA, ABC, whatever. "Any combination of the following: A, B and/or C" doesn't imply to me in any way that they can only be performed once per turn, since AAA etc are combinations of the three options.

Also, playing the "Double the Rent" card counts as a seperate action from playing the rent card. This is clarified in the FAQ (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://www.hasbro.com/monopoly/en_US/discover/faq.cfm
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If you didn't sound so adamant that your way is right I'd tell you that I disagree. Since the rules don't specifically forbid playing 2 or more of the same type of card I see no reason to make that interpretation. Note that in the phrase "Play your 3 cards in any combination of the following: A, B and/or C" the "or" would be completely out of place if I was only allowed to play my 3 cards in the combination of ABC.

Oh, plus there's the fact that the "Pass Go" card rules specifically say "You can play more than one Pass Go card per turn."

But what really makes me curious is what you think this "Pandoras box of problems" will be if any of the 3 possible actions are allowed more than once per turn. I've played this way every time and had no problems whatsoever.
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Chachito wrote:
IMO, you may be correct in your rules interpretation, but the game you play is a lot slower and not as chaotic. It is probably a deeper game, though, I'll give you that.

Actually it wouldn't be deeper, it would be more luck dependent. If a player wasn't lucky enough to have a variety of cards, they would be limited in what they could do. And, likewise, a player that was lucky enough to have a diverse hand would be able to do a lot on their turn.
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Chachito wrote:
How much harder would it be to get rid of your entire hand so you could draw new cards?

You get to draw 2 new cards every turn. I don't think the notion of being able to discard all your cards just to be able to draw 5 new ones is central to the game, or is meant to happen very often.
If played my way, discarding all of one's cards would only happen rarely. In order for it to happen a player would have to discard 3 cards on every turn (remember, playing my way) for 5 turns, at the end of which he would be left with no cards in hand and could subsequently draw 5 new ones - very rare, but it could happen.

Quote:
Your way, it's practically impossible.

Correct, as outlined above - but so what? Who is to say that it is meant to happen often?

Quote:
If you play a Go card, you can't play any further actions that turn?

False - you can play more than 1 Go Card per turn, as stated on the card itself. You can play as many as you have, but it only counts as 1 action played into the center pile.

Quote:
Half the time, I play a Go card hoping to get a better action card.

Keep doing it, nothing wrong with that. See previous answer.

Quote:
Almost impossible to go out in a big flurry, a la Rummy, since you're only going to be able to play one single property down.

What makes you think that going out in a big flurry is meant to be part of the game? Besides, this isn't Rummy.

Quote:
IMO, you may be correct in your rules interpretation, but the game you play is a lot slower and not as chaotic. It is probably a deeper game, though, I'll give you that.

Probably true.
 
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JBellor wrote:
"Any combination of the following: A, B and/or C" doesn't imply to me in any way that they can only be performed once per turn, since AAA etc are combinations of the three options.

AAA is a combination of ABC?
That's news to me.

Quote:
Also, playing the "Double the Rent" card counts as a seperate action from playing the rent card. This is clarified in the FAQ (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://www.hasbro.com/monopoly/en_US/discover/faq.cfm

OK, I've just read The Hasborg's FAQ's.
Actually, the second question directly adresses the issue. It says, quote:

Q - WHAT DOES ‘PLAYING A CARD’ MEAN?
A - On your turn, you can play (put down) up to 3 Property cards, Action cards, Money cards or any combination of the three.


OK, so that settles the issue, although it seems absurd to me that a player would thus be able to:

1) Play a Deal Breaker card against an opponent, thereby stealing a color set (possibly with houses and hotels on it).

2)Play a Rent card, along with a Double the Rent card using that same set he just stole. Ughh.

Doing all that on one turn just seems absurd to me, but we'll play it y'alls way next time and see how it goes.
It seems to me it would make for a very, very short game, with players often being able to draw 5 new cards and the draw pile diminishing very quickly.
 
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Da Debil wrote:

AAA is a combination of ABC?
That's news to me.

AAA would fall under the banner of "any combination of the following: A, B, and/or C".

And it seems like you're asking this game to be more than it is. It is simply a light, fun filler game that is over in usually 10-15 minutes (which is the estimation given on the box). When we play this, we usually get 4 or 5 games in and consider that a fun way to spend less than an hour.

Da Debil wrote:

OK, so that settles the issue, although it seems absurd to me that a player would thus be able to:


And yet, that is what the game is. If you are suggesting that a player only be allowed to play each type of card once per turn, that sounds like a fun variant that may possibly add a level of strategy to the game to allow for a deeper experience, and I would be interested in trying that. However, I haven't come across any problems or issues with the game that would suggest your way of interpreting the rules is the correct way, or even that there were any problems that would require a re-interpretation of the rules to fix.

Also, the "Quick Start Rules" card is a little clearer as regards the "And/Or" wording (although I didn't think it was unclear), as it says: "2. Lay up to 3 cards from your hand. Put them face-up in front of you in any combination of the following ways:"
 
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Da Debil wrote:
it seems absurd to me that a player would thus be able to:

1) Play a Deal Breaker card against an opponent, thereby stealing a color set (possibly with houses and hotels on it).

2)Play a Rent card, along with a Double the Rent card using that same set he just stole. Ughh.


Not absurd, and a good play if you can pull it off. Fear the 'Just Say No' card.

-=-=-

Concerning the rule about drawing 5 instead of 2 if you have an empty hand, what's the issue? The bonus +3 cards are just intended to allow you options in the fairly rare case that you deplete your hand.

A depleted hand has some penalties - opponents know you can't 'Just Say No' their action, so you have an entire round when you're vulnerable to deal cards, especially the DEAL BREAKER.

GO cards give a net +1 card each time they're played. That delays hand depletion by one round per GO played (unless you overflow the hand limit, in which case the extension effect is nullified and allows you to discard cards).

Starting with 5 cards, assuming no GOs and no JSNs, your hand size is
(turn: after draw/after play)
1: 7/4
2: 6/3
3: 5/2
4: 4/1
5: 3/0
So after five turns, you'll get to draw a fresh hand, and reset to 'turn 3'. Each GO card extends your depletion by a round. Each play of JSN out of turn hastens depletion by a turn.

So essentially, the +3 is a way to take someone from very few options (1 card, drawing 2 blind) to having more options (5 fresh cards). Timing these resurgences is part of the fun for some.
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byronczimmer wrote:
Not absurd, and a good play if you can pull it off. Fear the 'Just Say No' card.

Which brings up another Q&A in the Hasbro FAQ someone linked to uptopic.

There's one Q&A which says that the "Just Say No" card can be countered with ones own "Just Say No" card.
WTH?
This implies that such a counter could then be counter-countered with yet another "Just say No" card.

Good thing there are only three of these in the deck.
 
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I'm surprised this is even being debated... it's very clear. Just as an example, the double the rent action card is only ever played in *COMBINATION* with a rent action card. Clearly you can play more than one action card.

And I totally agree, collecting rent on a newly-stolen property is simply good play. What's the problem?? If I stole somebody's property I'm going to collect the rent, otherwise why did I steal it? Should I give my tenants a week off? *That* doesn't make sense.

The only question we've ever encountered is when a player is left with nothing but the wild card with no monetary value, whether he should have to hand that over to pay a debt.

I insisted that no monetary value means just that and refused to hand it over. I had to keep *some* dignity
 
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Da Debil wrote:
JBellor wrote:
"Any combination of the following: A, B and/or C" doesn't imply to me in any way that they can only be performed once per turn, since AAA etc are combinations of the three options.

AAA is a combination of ABC?
That's news to me.

Quote:
Also, playing the "Double the Rent" card counts as a seperate action from playing the rent card. This is clarified in the FAQ (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://www.hasbro.com/monopoly/en_US/discover/faq.cfm

OK, I've just read The Hasborg's FAQ's.
Actually, the second question directly adresses the issue. It says, quote:

Q - WHAT DOES ‘PLAYING A CARD’ MEAN?
A - On your turn, you can play (put down) up to 3 Property cards, Action cards, Money cards or any combination of the three.


OK, so that settles the issue, although it seems absurd to me that a player would thus be able to:

1) Play a Deal Breaker card against an opponent, thereby stealing a color set (possibly with houses and hotels on it).

2)Play a Rent card, along with a Double the Rent card using that same set he just stole. Ughh.

Doing all that on one turn just seems absurd to me, but we'll play it y'alls way next time and see how it goes.
It seems to me it would make for a very, very short game, with players often being able to draw 5 new cards and the draw pile diminishing very quickly.


The Deal Breaker card is already quite absurd on its own. A single card that completes 1/3 of your winning conditions with very few ways to counter it? Thats nuts man.
 
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We played several games again last night, this time correctly, which certainly made for a much quicker game.
 
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kvenosdel wrote:
Da Debil wrote:
JBellor wrote:
"Any combination of the following: A, B and/or C" doesn't imply to me in any way that they can only be performed once per turn, since AAA etc are combinations of the three options.

AAA is a combination of ABC?
That's news to me.

Quote:
Also, playing the "Double the Rent" card counts as a seperate action from playing the rent card. This is clarified in the FAQ (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://www.hasbro.com/monopoly/en_US/discover/faq.cfm

OK, I've just read The Hasborg's FAQ's.
Actually, the second question directly adresses the issue. It says, quote:

Q - WHAT DOES ‘PLAYING A CARD’ MEAN?
A - On your turn, you can play (put down) up to 3 Property cards, Action cards, Money cards or any combination of the three.


OK, so that settles the issue, although it seems absurd to me that a player would thus be able to:

1) Play a Deal Breaker card against an opponent, thereby stealing a color set (possibly with houses and hotels on it).

2)Play a Rent card, along with a Double the Rent card using that same set he just stole. Ughh.

Doing all that on one turn just seems absurd to me, but we'll play it y'alls way next time and see how it goes.
It seems to me it would make for a very, very short game, with players often being able to draw 5 new cards and the draw pile diminishing very quickly.


The Deal Breaker card is already quite absurd on its own. A single card that completes 1/3 of your winning conditions with very few ways to counter it? Thats nuts man.


I dunno, it's been easily thwarted by not completing sets until you've either seen the Deal Breakers played or are fairly certain you can lay down sets quickly enough to win. Granted, it leaves you open to other cards that steal from incomplete sets, but either way there are dangers.

Removing Deal Breaker would remove one of the two methods that dislodge a completed set (the other being renting them to the point they have to break up the set to pay).

We find their inclusion keeps the game tense. And it's short as is, so a loss is usually just one in a set of games played in short order.
 
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Lol! Played this wrong for 40+ games cause someone else taught me the rules.
 
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