Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: You Cut rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rich S
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
http://republicanwhip.house.gov/YouCut/

Finally, now we have a say on federal spending. And we get it American Idol style!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Seitz
United States
Glen Allen
VA
flag msg tools
badge
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's so crazy and hilarious, it might actually work!

And by "work," I mean it might give the Republicans some extra votes come November.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Boykin
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
For BJ.....
Avatar
mb
Quote:
There are two types of freedom in this world. There is the type that is easily won, but provides only the illusion that you are a master of your own destiny. Then there is there is the type that is bitterly won. It changes and marks your very soul as you grow into being able to defy the forces of Fate.

....I have no patience for the first.


-The Blind Captain, Sailor on the Seas of Fate by Michael Moorcock.

This sort of....stunt...is a perfect example of the 'easy' sort of 'choice' that American's loooove. We love being able to 'choose' who is going to be the next American Idol, when it has absolutely NO impact on the rest of America. Here we have one of the most important issues facing our generation dumbed down to the same level.

Disregard the fact that Rep. Cantor has made all the choices FOR you. Ignore that you're not allowed to choose something like "Getting rid of tax loopholes for large Corporations", or "Make Social Security Means tested rather than just being given to everyone over 67".

That's scary enough.

But what truly terrifies me- especially after reading the twitter feed for a half hour- is that there is NO ABILITY to argue the pros and cons of the need for a cut. There's no link to what the program does. There's no way to provide any form of input other than a mass, processed, electronic appeal.

As we watch the Democratic and Republican gladiators duke it out in the Colleseum that is Washington DC, our only choice is thumbs up or thumbs down. Approbation, not real citizenship, is what is wanted here.

This...farce- is designed purely to turn American's interest and desire to participate in our democracy into nothing more than a number- a number that he can then throw out as a weapon in the eternal Blood Royale.

And the twitterheads over there seem to love it. More, more more, they cry. Give us the illusion of being in control of our destiny, Mr. PoliticianMan. Don't challenge us, don't encourage to try and decide for ourselves the shape of OUR government as we are forced to redefine it for the next century- merely let us vote on our cell phones to broadcast that no matter what they do, they better not cancel Clay's performance in the Met.

After all, he's dreamy.....

Darilian

19 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken
United States
Crystal Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wait - American Idol fans can vote?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Doesn't this go against all the principles behind founding this country as a republic?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
Avatar
mbmbmb
Nothing but self promoting political bullshit.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Seitz
United States
Glen Allen
VA
flag msg tools
badge
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Darilian wrote:
After all, he's dreamy....

Wow, I never knew you had a thing for Cantor.
He lives nearby and we have some mutual friends. I'll bet I can get you an autograph.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
Doesn't this go against all the principles behind founding this country as a republic?


What, taking input from the plebes?


More like manipulating the masses with misinformation and ignorance and then giving them pseudo-power to make governmental decisions based on those falsehoods. As opposed to electing a trusted representative to analyze the issues and decide based on the needs of the electorate.

If the Republicans wan't to dismantle the republic and institute true democracy, they are welcome to make the needed changes to the Constitution, but they won't be able to come crying back to the Capital when the masses take all their riches.

Not that that is their intent mind you, they are just giving the illusion of democracy to make people feel empowered, yet the people are being spoon fed the decisions they should make (as Dar pointed out). I think the GOP has come to the realization that its easier to convince people that the decision the GOP wants is the right one, than to make the decision the people would want if they knew better. Isn't that what these outsider groups have battled against for years? Perot, Nader, The Tea Party... they all know they are being screwed one way or another, but the two parties smokescreens keeps the masses ignorant and/or lazy enough that they still are believing what they are told to believe. Every election, the respective party changes the color of the smokescreen just enough in a meaningless way and the carpet is pulled out from the counter-movements. Democrats villified and wooed the Greens (Same for GOP vs Perot) and now the GOP will do the same to the Tea Party. In the end, power remains in the hands of those who would profit from it, instead of those who would serve the people (for better or worse).

Until we remove non-citizen control over the system of the republic (corporatism), then the people will continue to cry out for democracy instead and consequently will be placated with these propaganda techniques that actually do the opposite.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Boykin
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
For BJ.....
Avatar
mb
bjlillo wrote:
Darilian wrote:
Disregard the fact that Rep. Cantor has made all the choices FOR you. Ignore that you're not allowed to choose something like "Getting rid of tax loopholes for large Corporations", or "Make Social Security Means tested rather than just being given to everyone over 67".

That's scary enough.


You missed the part where you put in suggestions for next week's voting.

Quote:
Then, Submit Your Ideas for Spending Cuts

YouCut is designed to defeat the permissive culture of spending in Congress. After you vote on this week's choices, we need your help in identifying which program and spending cuts should be featured on this website each week. Click the button below to submit your ideas!


So there you go Darilian. Feel free to offer all the advice you want on things to cut.



*LOL*

I did, actually- I put in the bit on mean's testing Social Security. I also suggested that we could draw down on military spending as we re-organize our forces for the 21st Century.

But you wouldn't know that on that website- as it doesn't SHOW my comments. Nor do I really have any faith that they will put either of my suggestions up as options.

The options up there are just political candy- they're all just pieces of bait to get people who identify as 'conservative' to snap up on and talk about how silly the Democrats are in defending such crap.

Which is a real shame-
There is another part of Cantor's site which is actually quite good- his article on how the GOP wants to promote job creation without increasing spending. I don't agree with all of it, but there are some really good ideas in there that should be talked about.

But the 'You Cut?' Its just a stunt- and more to the point, its a stunt that slowly erodes any idea of real citizenship in this country.

For all the Conservatives out there thinking I'm biting the hand of my own party...
I decried it when aides in Obama's administration tried to use artists to work out of the NEA to promote political 'art' for the sake of promoting Democratic positions on contemporary issues- because it was a violation of the use of Government's power of a patron of the arts. I took on the meme that 'only eveel Republicans' use negative images and ads, while the Democrats are good and pure.

I've argued, time and again, that the Democrats biggest failing is not just that they are inept weenies, but they are inept weenies whose very means of approaching the American people is destructive to the ideal of civics, as they try and promote 'government' (and politicians) as the universal 'fix-it' of all the problems we face today.

Which means, when I see the GOP making the same type of move- debasing the political conversation to the point that they are treating the American People like children- I'm going to call them on it.

The American People need political leadership that realizes that we are grown ups- we can, and WILL, make the hard decisions. But we're also, unfortunately, incredibly lazy when it comes to civics.

If the 'You Cut' proves popular, and if this becomes a new model for 21st Century 'democracy'- making the american people even MORE slaves to demogoguery- it won't be the GOP's fault, or Obama's fault.

It will be our own damn fault- for believing the ridiculous statement that we can solve the problem of the ballooning debt by an American Idol style poll.

Darilian
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
United States
Vancouver
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Ami. Geek.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You guys are railing on this pretty hard. What is the difference between what they did here and the typical, poorly worded, statistical hack-job of a poll that normally drives policy?

I find this preferrable to some of the more common alternatives such as "OMG, if we don't spend 100 billion dollars RIGHT NOW, we'll have to cut teachers, firemen, policemen, teachers, puppies and teachers!!! OMG vote now for higher taxes or we're all DOOOOOOOMED!!!"

You imply that other representatives use reason and higher functioning brain capacity to make decisions. That they allow for healthy debate on the issues. That they care what the hell you think beyond who you're going to next vote for (which might normally be a good thing, only they secure your vote by misinformation, two-facedness, and generally lying their arses off... on a good day).

So... while I don't completely disagree with why you don't like this, I think the tone is a bit much. These guys are just trying to change it up a bit. Whether they have good intentions or they're just up to the same old game of making us FEEL good about the same non-input we've always had, it's certainly not any worse than the status quo.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Boykin
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
For BJ.....
Avatar
mb
The issue isn't the issue.

My beef isn't with what Dan, pretty fairly, calls a sexed up letter writing campaign.

My problem is that the GOP is continuing to use political tools that cater to a lowest common denominator of civic involvement- and a lot of 'conservatives' seem to think that is what the country needs.

Its like the Tea Party- the Tea Party is great, in one sense, in that its giving a voice to the anger that a lot of Americans feel- an anger that could fuel a greater interest in civic involvement.

But how do they express it? Protests, setting up Facebook meetings, and arguing loudly on talk radio and blogs. And thats about IT. There is no attempt to try and set up an actual PARTY structure- rather, they're trying to 'co-opt' GOP candidates.

Which is, well, insane.

If you want candidates to be beholden to you, you have to have a party structure to provide a mechanism to contact new voters, raise money, campaign, discuss new issues, ORGANIZE, etc et al. But the candidates like Scott Brown, who ply upon Tea Party anger, aren't directly beholden to those voters at the end of the day- they are still members of the GOP.

Thus, the Tea Party strategy of Loud Protests without any real political organization on the ground is lunacy. Its exactly as inane as the Yippies and the other Protest movements of the 1960's- who thought that political organizing was 'beneath' them. Then, when the furor of the times wore by, those groups went by- while those who organized remained.

This is the same sort of thing- its an attempt by the GOP not to get people involved- but to give them the illusion they're involved.

And my anger isn't necessarily with the GOP- its with all those who think that is the sort of thing that replaces actual involvement.

Darilian
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken
United States
Crystal Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ejmowrer wrote:
You guys are railing on this pretty hard. What is the difference between what they did here and the typical, poorly worded, statistical hack-job of a poll that normally drives policy?


Because a good poll isn't self-selecting, has questions that are carefully crafted, and polls a representative sample. In contrast, this is a self-selecting, self-effacing, hack job of partisan nonsense.

For example - can you vote more than once for one of the options?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich S
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
perfalbion wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
You guys are railing on this pretty hard. What is the difference between what they did here and the typical, poorly worded, statistical hack-job of a poll that normally drives policy?


Because a good poll isn't self-selecting, has questions that are carefully crafted, and polls a representative sample. In contrast, this is a self-selecting, self-effacing, hack job of partisan nonsense.

For example - can you vote more than once for one of the options?


Let's assume that the Republicans are being genuine about getting the public's opinion on which programs to cut. How would you set up a better poll to gauge what should be cut? I mean, you can't very well list 500 different programs and expect to have meaningful results can you? So what specifically would be the process of setting up such a poll?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken
United States
Crystal Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
phosrik wrote:
Let's assume that the Republicans are being genuine about getting the public's opinion on which programs to cut. How would you set up a better poll to gauge what should be cut? I mean, you can't very well list 500 different programs and expect to have meaningful results can you? So what specifically would be the process of setting up such a poll?


I'd recommend talking to someone that knows how to build polls that are useful. Like Gallup or Zogby.

I suspect that they would tell you that asking about specific programs was pointless because there are so many within our government that there's no way for the average citizen to even be well informed enough to know enough of them to make a good decision. That instead you should be looking at the priorities the citizenry is interested in and then our elected officials should, oh, do their jobs and represent those priorities.

Which is, by the way, what firms like Gallup and Zogby do all the time.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.