Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Race for the Galaxy: The Brink of War» Forums » General

Subject: Frequency of takeovers rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Iron James Rackham
msg tools
mbmbmb
To those of you who have had the chance to play a decent amount of games with all expansions:
How would you say the chance that takeovers a) occur and b) play an important role compares to that in RvI? If you've tried with different number of players, how does this change the equation? (I realize that having more players increases the chance, just not by what magnitude. Are they still very rare in 3-4pl as in RvI?)
Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Seitz
United States
Glen Allen
VA
flag msg tools
badge
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ironJames wrote:
To those of you who have had the chance to play a decent amount of games with all expansions:
How would you say the chance that takeovers a) occur and b) play an important role compares to that in RvI? If you've tried with different number of players, how does this change the equation? (I realize that having more players increases the chance, just not by what magnitude. Are they still very rare in 3-4pl as in RvI?)
Thanks.

Edit: Whoops! Tom's right. I didn't realize you meant BoW (since it's not "out" yet for us mortals), but my stupid comments shall remain to haunt me.

I've done ONE in 10+ F2F games, and that's only because I insisted on trying it. Never even come close in any other games, despite playing with takeovers "on" by default. It's rare for us that someone ever even gains the power to do takeovers. If more cards had takeover powers, that might change.

In about 200 AI games, I've done it maybe twice.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
Tim, the OP was asking about takeovers *with TBOW*. Your reference to AI games makes me think you might be answering about some other configuration. Is this correct? Thanks.

James, I suspect it may be too early to ask about Takeovers and The Brink of War. Not many players have gotten this expansion yet and those who have are probably adjusting to the new cards, prestige, and search and haven't gotten around to testing the takeover game with the Brink of War yet (and may not be interested in doing so).

TBoW adds 5 new takeover cards to the 4 in RvI, more than doubling those cards (while the total number of cards goes from 180->228).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
All of my games so far have been withOUT TOs (takeovers). In one 3p game, I had Imperium Planet Buster in my start hand. Sure as was hell wasn't building a 9-cost dev just +3 military and no other engine boosts. I saw Interstellar Causis Bella at one point, which is a shame since I did end up having 5 military at late midgame. Was kinda expensive without any II bonuses though. Other than those, I saw no cards with TO powers. Not even when I did my super search OPG action. Some must've gone through my opponents' hands.

Hell, I saw no UPLIFT cards with 'x' symbols for my Uplift Mercenary Force, but that's another matter.

.

In another 3p game, I saw cards like Imperium Invasion Fleet and Imperium Cloaking Technology

.

Not much in my 4p and 5p games, let alone being able to build them and use them.

.

Long story short, still kinda rare. However, if you're really into TO, I'd suggest playing back-to-back 4p or more games. You're bound to hit the right card draw and mood.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I play a couple of 4-5 player RvI games each day and in this particular trash-talking aggressive group we get a takeover every second or third game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Iron James Rackham
msg tools
mbmbmb
ackmondual wrote:
However, if you're really into TO, I'd suggest playing back-to-back 4p or more games. You're bound to hit the right card draw and mood.


It's not that I'm particularly "into" TOs, more that since they are a part of the game I would like it if they'd play a bigger part than they do in RvI. Unfortunately, I currently never play with more than 4p.

Tom Lehmann wrote:
TBoW adds 5 new takeover cards to the 4 in RvI, more than doubling those cards (while the total number of cards goes from 180->228).


The main reason we've hardly seen any TOs is not that the powers have been absent, but rather lack of vulnerability among the other players and/or them not having any worlds that are more useful than the ones in the TO player's hand.
I guess it really boils down to the fact that it's rare that more than one of us is doing much military-wise. Maybe playing style related. Either way I can see how it would change with more players.

No matter, I will get tBoW sooner or later anyway. Was simply curious about this aspect. The game is just so addictive, and the replayability is almost unparalleled in my experience. Hats off to you Tom!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd McCorkle
United States
Anderson
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ackmondual wrote:
All of my games so far have been withOUT TOs (takeovers).
*snip*

Long story short, still kinda rare.


Seems a bit of a wonky conclusion to me. "I saw a couple of TO powers, but didn't play them because TO was off. Nobody else played a TO either."

I can only guess that they would be less rare if TO is actually ON.



(Also, I'm jealous of you people who can consistently get 4 people to play. *pout* )
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Serge Levert
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've not played with BoW yet so this is just more speculation from me.

As Tom alluded to, the frequency of takeover cards is doubled. Also note the Search action, which allows anyone to search for a takeover card at any time! So takeovers will probly be about twice as likely/frequent as before.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Brough
msg tools
mbmb
My experience so far is that they have become very frequent. In 2-player, they're happening maybe 1 in every 5 or 6 games (down from maybe 1 in 40 in RvI). This may go down as we learn to take a more balanced approach to the BoW cards instead of just playing them because they're new, and as we learn to defend ourselves better.

Cassus Belli makes a huge difference, because it eliminates the need for vulnerabilities. People using pay-for-military powers really need to be careful about it. Yesterday I took over Alien Research Team's Alien Guardian!

The "search for takeover" power is significant as well. If you have more military than your opponent, and they have some worlds worth taking, it can be very effective to search for a takeover power (especially if they have some vulnerability). It doesn't hurt that some of the takeover powers are on generally very good 6-devs for a military build anyway. It does broadcast your intentions pretty clearly though, so they'll do whatever they can to build defenses. (Searching for a >=5 military world is awesome too.)
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kusinohki wrote:

(Also, I'm jealous of you people who can consistently get 4 people to play. *pout* )


Won't last long. One of my game groups which makes this kind of a regular game is gonna get disvoled in the next few months cry I'll still have other places to play this, but it'll be much less in frequency (pun intended on topic title?)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CW Tang
msg tools
mb
I think that the takeover rule has more impact on the play even though takeover rarely happens.

Without TO, the most effective way of laying down military world is through Contact Specialist.

With TO on, you have to think about how to DEFEND your military world, especially the high valued Rebel world.

Thus, you have to decide whether to enter the arms race, or abstain from Rebel / Imperium cards.

ANother consideration is to hold up TO card so that your opponent cannot have TO power.

From my experience, TO only happens when there is bad luck or bad play, ususally a bit of both.

The real useful TO cards are Rebel Alliance and Imperium Lord, it is not easy to get either of them in RvI, and is even more difficult to get in BoW, as the deck becomes thicker.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Brough
msg tools
mbmb
cwtang wrote:
From my experience, TO only happens when there is bad luck or bad play, ususally a bit of both.

The real useful TO cards are Rebel Alliance and Imperium Lord, it is not easy to get either of them in RvI, and is even more difficult to get in BoW, as the deck becomes thicker.


Sounds like you haven't played BoW yet.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hannu Pajula
Finland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
After some 60 games of Brink of War, all with Takeovers on, we have seen less than 10 takeovers and none in the past 20 games or so. The most common takeover experience among us is having Imperium Invasion Fleet on tableau and lot of trash talk about taking over a planet until someone reminds that IIF is not a takeover card. More often than not, the player with takeover card in play either has no legal targets or has a better planet in his hand than what is available for takeover.

In one of our first games with Brink of War, in which all four players were playing military, we had a situation where all three other players could have succesfully taken over a planet from Imperium Warlord on the same turn. Yet the Rebel players ended up banging their heads on each other while not realizing that they could have taken over New Sparta's Hidden Fortress easily.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dana Lacoste
United States
San Diego
Canadian in San Diego
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I was playing the Keldon AI with RvI this week (5 player game) and came across the PERFECT takeover scenario (two players had 11 cards, so likely last round, two of us had 3 rebel military cards out (with the 3+ rebel military goal in play) and I had enough military to do it....

But to do it I needed to develop the card in my hand that would allow me to do takeovers (I had to develop: only had 6 cards, so couldn't afford otherwise), and then someone else would have to settle, and I couldn't convince the AI to change its mind and pick settle

Overall, in my face to face playing I've only seen takeovers in about 1% of all games (it's to the point that we just leave takeovers on for all games because they happen so rarely that it's not worth worrying about: if you don't want to be taken over, don't play any imperium, rebel military, or +military cards and you can't be taken over. easy.) In MOST of those cases, the person doing the takeover won by a large margin because they were able to do multiple takeovers in successive rounds, beating out their primary competition. But there was no animosity in those situations: sometimes you just plain get beat by the cards (it's RACE to the galaxy: if you lose the race and fall behind, too bad

I'm concerned about the effect that BoW might have: I'm still waiting for my copy to ship (go ThoughtHammer! but there's card that allows you to take over ANY settlement. That might make takeovers more common and more dangerous, but I think it will just make rebel pact (? the one cost development that gives you defence against takeovers and the 'discard-from-hand-during-explore' power) more valuable, even if you're not using the pay-for-military powers.

I echo the jealousy for regular 4P games. We had a regular 3P game (lunchtime at work!) but one of those 3 (me!) changed jobs so that's become a lot less frequent an activity.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hannu Pajula
Finland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
jeamland wrote:
I'm concerned about the effect that BoW might have: I'm still waiting for my copy to ship but there's card that allows you to take over ANY settlement.


I am not sure if you mean Interstellar Casus Belli (which can be used to take over any military planet) or Imperium Invasion Fleet (which can be combined with suitable takeover powers to conquer any planets).

Interstellar Casus Belli is 4-cost, 0-vp card and its takeover power requires prestige to use (the card itself does not give Prestige when played). However, if you manage to use it succesfully couple of times it should compensate for its lack of VP by its Consume power. Even so, I am more worried about Interstellar Casus Belli appearing in Prestige/Consume heavy tableaus rather than military heavy tableaus.

Imperium Invasion Fleet provides the army required for takeovers, but it is rarely used for takeovers since it does not have a takeover power. If combined with takeover power to conquer civil planets, you are also discarding the fleet as you do so.

Even if takeover powers have become more common, I don't really see the need to be more afraid of them than previously.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Neuhaus
United States
New York
NY
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
With Casus Belli, you really need to be afraid to go peaceful military without the Security Council. You are just a ripe target.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm at 3 takeovers in about 16 games of 2p advanced - one involving an ATS lynchpin in a produce-consume strategy being destroyed, the others a TerraG combo and a GEx combo being dismantled. This is a big jump for the 2p game, and I suspect that it's not just unfamiliarity with the expansion, as the military worlds taken over were originally placed to score quite highly and had 4+ defence, and the initial takeover powers were developed on the same turn as the settles.

My takeover-friendly group is still getting used to the cards and not going for takeovers. I used Interstellar Casus Belli and Imperium Planet Buster together with Improved Logistics on them yesterday, so perhaps they'll join in.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My group of 5 are up to 9 games where a takeover was attempted out of 58 games (16%) since I've started tracking. Now they are playing more to win than to smash people's stuff (though that still happens on occasion), the military path and takeovers are only chosen if they are strong plays.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.