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Subject: Poll: What should be done with Thumb Machine GG Lottery Lists and Cleavage photos. rss

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Bonaparte
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Poll: Poll: What should be done with Thumb Machine Lists and Cleavage Pictures?
There is more and more frustration by some on BGG by the "thumb my post/list for GG" lists/posts and the "here is my cleavage, give me a thumbs" photos. Here is your chance to cast a vote on what should be done.
1. Should "Thumb Machine" Geek Lists/Posts that offer GG for thumbs be:
Given their own category / sub-section.
Eliminated entirely.
Left as is.
Other. (explain below)
2. What should be done with the gratuitous "Girl Showing Cleavage" photos?
They should be removed for BGG.
They should be moved to the OP's gallery.
They should be left alone.
Other. Explain below.
      492 answers
Poll created by Dave Davies
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Mike Jones
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I can't bring myself to vote that the 'cleavage' shots should be left alone.

I recently bought my mother a computer so that she wouldn't feel completely isolated haven't retired out in the middle of no where. I did warn her that the internet is about communicating at the lowest common denominator.

I wish, however, we could find a way to be 'above' that level, but it is the internet and as I'd rather be 'inclusive' then 'exclusive', I voted other.

We should just break the hands of those posting them, so they can't post anymore. It should bring the overall level of BGG up. Outside then that, I guess they should stay.

(I don't sort images by hot, so I actually really see them unless they pop up on my subscription because of a posting by one of my stalking victims.)

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Interesting. People get way, way more bent out of shape over a geek list or two that asks for thumbs being on their front page (currently 92.3% dislike factor) than about perpetuating the salivating-male-dork-sees-boobies stereotype (38.5%, not including "other"; 33% if including it). I find that amazing.

Personally, I say leave the geek lists as they are. No big deal. I can skip them just as easily as I ignore those historical ones about great battles 200 years ago.

But the cleavage posts really should be put into a "immature" group within each game. In fact, only images tagged as "game" images should show when browsing the site or the game pages. One should have to "opt in" for the other shots (ie, people pictures). That way, stray visitors don't get the boob-in-your-face and cat picture shots (and the rest of us benefit from the cleanup).
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Bonaparte
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Rats: I should have put a please thumb my poll for GG on here just to make sure it gets enough exposure. That is how the justification goes right?)
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I am fine with pictures as they are since they have subcategories which I use to find what I am looking for. However, I think geeklists (and files) should also have subcategories to make it easier to find the information someone is looking for.
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Guantanamo wrote:
I can't bring myself to vote that the 'cleavage' shots should be left alone.

I recently bought my mother a computer so that she wouldn't feel completely isolated haven't retired out in the middle of no where. I did warn her that the internet is about communicating at the lowest common denominator.

I wish, however, we could find a way to be 'above' that level, but it is the internet and as I'd rather be 'inclusive' then 'exclusive', I voted other.

We should just break the hands of those posting them, so they can't post anymore. It should bring the overall level of BGG up. Outside then that, I guess they should stay.

(I don't sort images by hot, so I actually really see them unless they pop up on my subscription because of a posting by one of my stalking victims.)



I assume you are joking.

But if you are not, not all mother's are the same. Mine tells dirty jokes and laughed herself silly at the fat naked guy chasing Paul Giamatti out of the house in the movie Sideways.

My point is, all of our mother's have seen something dirty at some point in their life. They are adults, and can handle it, probably better than us.
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Mike Jones
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UndeadViking wrote:
Guantanamo wrote:
I can't bring myself to vote that the 'cleavage' shots should be left alone.

I recently bought my mother a computer so that she wouldn't feel completely isolated haven't retired out in the middle of no where. I did warn her that the internet is about communicating at the lowest common denominator.

I wish, however, we could find a way to be 'above' that level, but it is the internet and as I'd rather be 'inclusive' then 'exclusive', I voted other.

We should just break the hands of those posting them, so they can't post anymore. It should bring the overall level of BGG up. Outside then that, I guess they should stay.

(I don't sort images by hot, so I actually really see them unless they pop up on my subscription because of a posting by one of my stalking victims.)



I assume you are joking.

But if you are not, not all mother's are the same. Mine tells dirty jokes and laughed herself silly at the fat naked guy chasing Paul Giamatti out of the house in the movie Sideways.

My point is, all of our mother's have seen something dirty at some point in their life. They are adults, and can handle it, probably better than us.


I was only joking about breaking the hands.

I didn't say she couldn't 'handle' it and wouldn't join in. I was just telling her that most of the internet is about cleavage

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Johan Rising
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I voted "other" because I think we should whine and complain about them every chance we get in every possible thread. That's the BGG-solution to everything else, right? Just like we whine and complain all the time because the top 100 and The Hotness are full of games we don't like, because Agricola doesn't deserve to be rated higher thatn Puerto Rico, because some people are thumbing posts for different reasons than we do, or because some people have the indecency to prefer games with more/less random elements than the One And Only True Way To Play Games So Help Me God - that we ourselves enjoy.

Or... Maybe, just maybe, we could do what we'd do in real life: Deal with it. It doesn't matter how popular Lady Gaga is, I don't have to listen to her if I don't want to. I'm not going to go to MTV's forum and complain about it, demanding that they show more videos from Morrissey.

And when it comes to pictures of women... Come on. We're not talking about pornography or anything even remotely close to the adverts on this site. They're just ordinary pictures of people playing games, and they happen to be very popular. People thumb all kinds of things that I personally aren't interested in, like player aids and session reports. Pictures of women playing games are just one other thing on my list of things I don't really care about.

If this was about people abusing a technical feature on the site (like dumping a lot of short, meaningless posts in a thread to keep it high in the "Active" list, or to promote their game) I would've agreed that it could be a problem, but what we're talking about here is simply that the things that most people like to thumb are other things than the ones we would've prefered them to. Tough luck. One can either just accept that and move on, or whine and complain about it in the forums.
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Rising wrote:
I voted "other" because I think we should whine and complain about them


While I respect your right to your opinion, I disagree. I don't care about MTV or Lady Gaga. If I did, and I had a forum to make my opinion known, I would do so. You are doing the same here with your sarcastic attempt to diminish other peoples approaches to their frustration. You are sounding off here because you don't like the conversation. Others sound off in other ways to say they don't like thumb whoring or cleavage pics taking the place of legitimate content. So I respect your opinion, but not your self-perceived sophistication. You are doing exactly what you are belittling.
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Johan Rising
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Quote:
You are doing exactly what you are belittling.


Yes, I'm aware of the irony. And I'm sure that you are, too: When you say that you don't like "thumb whoring or cleavage pics taking the place of legitimate content" you're of course guilty of the same kind of "self-perceived sophistication" that I am. Nothing remarkable about that.

I think that as long as we're all aware of that; that we're all being a bit silly in these threads, and as long as we're just blowing off some steam and say what's on our hearts without - of course - being offensive or getting personal - then we're fine.
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Randy Cox wrote:
That way, stray visitors don't get the boob-in-your-face and cat picture shots (and the rest of us benefit from the cleanup).

Please do not unfairly malign cats by lumping them together with boob shots.

In all seriousness, I do think some of the reaction over cleavage shots is just an overreaction to pictures of women playing games. Yes, they have cleavage -- that's a feature, not a bug. And 99% of the time I don't see any explicit exploitation going on by the picture taker or the subject.

To me, the bigger problem is that game galleries get crowded with pictures of people playing games. I don't find these pictures particularly helpful (though some of them are very amusing). I'd prefer keeping people pictures on everybody's personal gallery, and reserving the game's gallery for the game itself.

And cats in boxes. That goes without saying.
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Rising wrote:
Quote:
You are doing exactly what you are belittling.


Yes, I'm aware of the irony. And I'm sure that you are, too: When you say that you don't like "thumb whoring or cleavage pics taking the place of legitimate content" you're of course guilty of the same kind of "self-perceived sophistication" that I am. Nothing remarkable about that.

I think that as long as we're all aware of that; that we're all being a bit silly in these threads, and as long as we're just blowing off some steam and say what's on our hearts without - of course - being offensive or getting personal - then we're fine.


It seems that you were saying we should just shut up and accept what it is per your Lady Gaga example. So you are using your voice (typed) to say we should not use our voice. That is irony at least and hypocrisy more likely. I do not see any irony or hypocrisy in saying that thumb whoring is damaging the site and Cleavage pics are ridiculous and out of theme/context for this site. Nor am I saying that I am more sophisticated. I am saying I do not like what is being done. It is easy (and unsophisticated) to say "you do/did it too" as a response, but what we are doing is not the same. At least as I see it. Perhaps I am not sophisticated enough to see the correlation.
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Gary Simpson

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that thumb whoring is damaging the site


what is a thumb? what is thumb whoring? and how is it damaging our site?
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celiborn wrote:

In all seriousness, I do think some of the reaction over cleavage shots is just an overreaction to pictures of women playing games. Yes, they have cleavage -- that's a feature, not a bug. And 99% of the time I don't see any explicit exploitation going on by the picture taker or the subject.


Do you really see no difference between # 9 image of all time:



and image # 10 of all time:



While neither is specifically game related, one is a legitimate game photo and one is an intentional and gratuitous cleavage display.
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Dave Davies wrote:
celiborn wrote:

In all seriousness, I do think some of the reaction over cleavage shots is just an overreaction to pictures of women playing games. Yes, they have cleavage -- that's a feature, not a bug. And 99% of the time I don't see any explicit exploitation going on by the picture taker or the subject.


Do you really see no difference between # 9 image of all time:



and image # 10 of all time:



While neither is specifically game related, one is a legitimate game photo and one is an intentional and gratuitous cleavage display.


Sorry Dave, I'm afraid you honestly lost me here. Yes the second picture got thumbs because a cute girl is showing cleavage, but the first picture got thumbs because a little kid is being adorable. Neither one has much to do with the game in the picture (which is why the image categories were created).

Obviously there is a line to be drawn around indecency/obscenity, but for me the second picture is no where near that line.
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I don't know why someone would rather have thumbs than GG, but if they want to give away thier geek gold like that, I don't understand why thats a problem? I haven't yet come across a geeklist like that, so maybe I'm not understanding the details.

Also, I agree with the 66%+ 2/3rds majority of the voters in the 2nd question.
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gsimpson wrote:


what is a thumb? what is thumb whoring? and how is it damaging our site?


Okay, I'll play

While I think you are playing with me, here it goes. A thumb is a small icon that may be clicked to show approval of an entry, thus communicating that it has value as a contribution. This value system has been used traditionally to sort better contributions from less so.

Thumb Whoring is when a person bribes a person to thumb an entry with GG or some other sort of lottery system.

When this is done it changes the meaning of a thumb given from a comment on the threads content to a desire to participate in an event. At this point sorting for quality is polluted by items that simply solicited participation.
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Gary Simpson

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Not really sure why you are so suspicious about this. I just wanted to know what your definitions are. Thanks for taking the time and good luck with the poll.
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I still think that if the 10k thumbs award microbadge is removed from the site these problems will solve themselves.
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Johan Rising
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Quote:
So you are using your voice (typed) to say we should not use our voice. That is irony at least and hypocrisy more likely.


Sure, it can certainly be percieved along those lines. It's like when one says "hey now, you can't pass your opinions as facts" and the person responds "why not? Who says I can't? You? That's just your opinion, and you just passed it off as fact. What you just did, there, was the exact same thing you accused me of doing!"

That guy certainly made us sound like a hypocrite, didn't he? (That isn't necessariy the case, of course. The situation is probably more like a logical paradox when we're investigating it more closely. Our human languages are not particularly good at avoiding that kind of recursion. And it would just sound weird if we had to say "I have this to say about your statement - and what I have to say can be applied to all statements except those that refer to other statements, like this do - :" before we explained any of our opinions about other opinions.

But just to make things clear; that's obviously what I meant: "We should not complain (except for this one complaint about other complaints - (which will be unecessary as soon as we stop complaining ( at which points this maxim would actually fullfill itself)))."

I'm certain that you disagree with this opinion as well, and that is perfectly fine. You have every right to. It might be naïve, stupid, crazy... call it what you will, but it cannot be applied to itself, and can therefore not be said to be hypocritical. It is of course ironic in a humorous sense, though, which is something that I found to be entertaining, and which made me enjoy writing it.

Well. Enough about that.

Quote:
I do not see any irony or hypocrisy in saying that thumb whoring is damaging the site and Cleavage pics are ridiculous and out of theme/context for this site.


To say that other users - unlike yourself - are damaging the site and have preferences that are ridiculous... That is clearly saying that you percieve yourself to be in posession of some quality that these persons are lacking. Namely the ability to be "un-damaging" and "un-ridiculous" to the site.

You might not call this quality to be "sophisticated", but I'd argue that they're sufficiently equal. It's perfectly ok, though. It's of course impossible to claim that someone else is being wrong without at the same time implying that oneself is right. I don't think anyone is being a hypocrite in this conversation. I'm not really arguing with you, either. My stand regarding this issue is pretty much "yeah, it sucks, but what can you do?" I mean, we aren't really saying that these users are damaging the site when all they've done is having other preferences than ours, right? That'd be extremely disrespectful. Awful, really. A direct violation of the rules. I'm really hoping that noone really means that.

We're all just slightly frustrated and grumpy, right? No biggie.
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Rising wrote:
I mean, we aren't really saying that these users are damaging the site when all they've done is having other preferences than ours, right? That'd be extremely disrespectful. Awful, really. A direct violation of the rules. I'm really hoping that noone really means that.


No, I actually mean what I am saying. And no it is not awful or disrespectful. Your analogy is akin to saying that if I am at a ballpark to watch a baseball game and another person shows up with a boom box blaring loud music and sits behind me, and is playing catch with a person three rows in front of me, that that is okay and I should not say anything because, hey, to each his own. Garbage. That is the chronic PC world we live in, but it is garbage. I can say that I think that others are using this site in inappropriate ways and not fracture some ethical or moral code. There are rules and expectations on this site that have changed and adapted over time. Many changes have come due to thread dialogues. At no time have I said these are bad people. I have said I do not think that the type of posts they are doing in these specific circumstances are outside the parameters that I would like to see. It does not mean that I am right. It is simply my observation which others can respond to. It is crazy to imply that it is disrespectful or awful. As a pleasant aside, your logic train earlier in your post is flawed. What you say cannot be defined as hypocrisy is exactly what hypocrisy is defined as: The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold to.
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Dave Davies wrote:
Do you really see no difference between # 9 image of all time:



and image # 10 of all time:



While neither is specifically game related, one is a legitimate game photo and one is an intentional and gratuitous cleavage display.



You are either joking or making a fool of yourself...

Either way, thanks for the laugh.
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What should be done with Thumb Machine Lists?

Red flag them as disruptive? If we as a community decree them so, then they are.
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