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BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: So how about that Rand Paul? rss

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MGK
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Man, I did not think it was possible to set up things so that a Democrat would get elected in Kentucky this year, but it looks like he's gonna pull it off.
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
Oh. what the hell. What do you want to bet?


Winner buys the loser a readily available game (less than $40 US) of their choice?

Seriously. I don't think he's got a shot in hell. When you start a campaign by saying how you think the Civil Rights Act is a bad idea, you might as well just go home now.
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Welcome Rolling Stones
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I admire Rand Paul for speaking so frankly. He really is setting himself up for trouble, though.

I'll put a sidebet on MGK.
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
I thought Rand Paul was the GOP guy in Kentucky.


But that's the beauty of it: he is the GOP nominee for the Senate seat in Kentucky!
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Daniel Eig
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I wouldn't bet against him. His little "slip up" might gain him more votes than it lost, even if no one wants to admit it to a pollster.
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bjlillo wrote:
What was his slip up?


He spoke honestly about his views on a show on MSNBC.
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bjlillo wrote:
What was his slip up?


"Slip up" implies accident, which this clearly wasn't - he said, straight up, that private businesses should have the right to discriminate on the basis of race, and that the market should be left to create a solution to the problem of discrimination. This isn't something new, either: he's said repeatedly that he thinks the Civil Rights Act is a bad idea.

And I disagree with Daniel that it'll get him more votes. Maybe he might pull that trick if he went full libertarian and portrayed his stance as being one of conscience. That would be understandable - evidence of deep stupidity, maybe, but at least understandable. But he isn't doing that - he's going mealymouthed and being all "well, I wouldn't vote to repeal the Civil Rights Act" and then today saying that in fact he totally would have voted for the Civil Rights Act.

All he's doing by acting this way is confirming voters' beliefs that he's repeatedly endorsed an idea that he admits is wrongheaded.
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Chad Ellis
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I think Paul could have survived the Rachel Maddow interview and the flak that followed. His position had two possible bright sides -- that he's honest (something valuable, especially with the current anti-incumbent fervor) and that he's wrong (if you think he's wrong) for "small government" reasons, rather than because he thinks discrimination is OK.

I think his problems are twofold. First, he ditched the integrity bump when he and his campaign basically lied during damage control. Paul is on record more than once as saying that the sort of private discrimination under discussion should be legal This stands at odds with recent statements, such as:

Rand Paul spokesman wrote:
Civil Rights legislation that has been affirmed by our courts gives the Federal government the right to insure that private businesses don't discriminate based on race. Dr. Paul supports those powers.


The second problem is that this probably won't be the last time Paul says something that makes people shake their heads. Paul is a hard-core libertarian, and there's a reason that libertarians don't win many elections -- most people disagree with them. (Another problem is that their positions often sound prejudiced even when they aren't.) My guess is that we'll see a lot of Paul's policy statements (e.g. he's against the Fair Housing Act) popping up even if he doesn't make some new ones of his own.

Will that be enough? I have no idea. FiveThirtyEight has Kentucky >80% to stay Republican. The money is closer to even on Intrade but I don't think there's been much volume there and last I looked it hadn't changed from before the ruckus.
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Daniel Eig
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bjlillo wrote:
dtolman wrote:
I wouldn't bet against him. His little "slip up" might gain him more votes than it lost, even if no one wants to admit it to a pollster.


What was his slip up?


Criticizing the Civil Rights Act

EDIT: Just to clarify my position - I used quotes because it was not an actual mistake (it came from honest non-racist principles, as ill thought out and idiotic as they were) - but it was a positioning/campaigning/media mistake, except among Libertarians and Racists.
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mightygodking wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Oh. what the hell. What do you want to bet?


Winner buys the loser a readily available game (less than $40 US) of their choice?

Seriously. I don't think he's got a shot in hell. When you start a campaign by saying how you think the Civil Rights Act is a bad idea, you might as well just go home now.

To clarify, the bet is whether the Dem will win, not whether Paul will win. Correct?
 
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Did he say he is against the CRA ever being law or that he is against it now, as in it should be repealed now that it has served its purpose? I can see a better case being made for the latter than the former.
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Daniel Eig
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jarredscott78 wrote:
Did he say he is against the CRA ever being law or that he is against it now, as in it should be repealed now that it has served its purpose? I can see a better case being made for the latter than the former.


No - he said he was against the government preventing private establishments keeping out blacks, Jews, or whatever other groups they wanted to keep out. He argued that they would suffer from it (financially), and it wasn't the governments place to do so. So it wasn't needed - ever.

Seeing how racists institutions in the south did just fine for a century with those policies, and the sea change in racial attitudes since the laws passing, I'm not very convinced.
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jarredscott78 wrote:
To clarify, the bet is whether the Dem will win, not whether Paul will win. Correct?


Right now, my understanding is that the race boils down to Paul as the Republican candidate (because he beat Trey Greyson in the primary) and Jack Conway as the Democratic candidate. In an election between Paul and Conway, I think Conway wins. If Greyson enters the race as an independent or something, all bets are off.
 
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dtolman wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
Did he say he is against the CRA ever being law or that he is against it now, as in it should be repealed now that it has served its purpose? I can see a better case being made for the latter than the former.


No - he said he was against the government preventing private establishments keeping out blacks, Jews, or whatever other groups they wanted to keep out. He argued that they would suffer from it (financially), and it wasn't the governments place to do so. So it wasn't needed - ever.

Seeing how racists institutions in the south did just fine for a century with those policies, and the sea change in racial attitudes since the laws passing, I'm not very convinced.

That probably would be the hard-liner libertarian position, that the free market should punish those who discriminate in these ways:
-they won't be hiring the "best and brightest" if they exclude groups
-those groups who are excluded likely won't do business with them
-people outside of those groups might also not do business with them out of empathy for those excluded
That's why I'm a lot libertarian but not all the way. I believe the original act should have been but that at some point it won't be needed anymore. The problem is, once we get a law in place we tend to keep it forever.
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bjlillo wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
If Greyson enters the race as an independent or something, all bets are off.


Do you mean that literally or figuratively for the purposes of your bet post?


Both. I think the core of any bet at this point right now is Conway v. Paul; anything that really alters that dynamic in a major way - and the only thing that could do that, I think, is an independent candidate making a big splash, which would make the bet meaningless for all parties.
 
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Rand Paul says that Obama's being too hard on BP and that sometimes accidents happen.

I'm a bigger fan of Rand's brother Ru, but I have to admit that the entertainment value of this star is rising each day.
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Wray Cason
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I hope that Paul wins and there is reason to think he will based on the Republican bias there. I am really unimpressed with him though. He speaks badly, he reasons badly, he takes offense easily, he plays the victim card shamelessly, he can't give a straight answer, he has demonstrably lied, he seems ideologically inflexible. That is enough for now.
 
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Based on the Kentuckians I know, those views aren't exactly fringe over there. They are two steps removed from wanting to repeal universal suffrage.
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Jeff Hinrickson
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The Civil Rights act is a joke.

People are discriminated against all the time and not just by skin color.

How can the Government dictate how people feel inside, which is what they are trying to do.
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Wrayman wrote:
I hope that Paul wins and there is reason to think he will based on the Republican bias there. I am really unimpressed with him though. He speaks badly, he reasons badly, he takes offense easily, he plays the victim card shamelessly, he can't give a straight answer, he has demonstrably lied, he seems ideologically inflexible. That is enough for now.


Then why would you inflict him upon the good people of Kentucky?
 
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Wray Cason
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slowcorner wrote:
Wrayman wrote:
I hope that Paul wins and there is reason to think he will based on the Republican bias there. I am really unimpressed with him though. He speaks badly, he reasons badly, he takes offense easily, he plays the victim card shamelessly, he can't give a straight answer, he has demonstrably lied, he seems ideologically inflexible. That is enough for now.


Then why would you inflict him upon the good people of Kentucky?
Because I would expect him to limit government more than his opponent.
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John O'Haver
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So far no one has mentioned that Rand Paul is the son of former presidential wanna be Ron Paul.
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I assume that's because we all know that? I could be wrong, of course.
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Wrayman wrote:
Because I would expect him to limit government more than his opponent.


Rand Paul opposes marijuana legalization and is a firm supporter of Medicare, so his libertarianism really only extends to those areas which apparently personally do not benefit him.
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mightygodking wrote:
Wrayman wrote:
Because I would expect him to limit government more than his opponent.


Rand Paul opposes marijuana legalization and is a firm supporter of Medicare, so his libertarianism

One could argue that his position on these issues disqualifies him from being a libertarian.
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