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Horus Heresy (2010)» Forums » General

Subject: Is this game so "limited" or am I missing something? rss

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Luis E. Hernández
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Fellow gamers,
We bought this game recently, have played 4 times, and we have reached the following conclusions:
1-There is only 1 scenario with different variations, not 6.
2-Basically, the game is about taking the spaceports, which makes it very "static": most areas are never used or even stepped on by units.
3-There is never combat on the ship, since both sides are focused on taking the ports.
4-(Cardboard) bunkers are rarely used


That´s at least what happened in our games. Are we missing something? Anybody agrees with us?
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Dale Quimpo
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Agreed. My friend bought it, and after 3 plays, he trade it for Warhammer Invasion.
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Chris J Davis
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That kinda describes our first game as well, though we are reserving judgement until we've got a few more plays under our belts.
 
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Seth Ben-Ezra
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Gameluis wrote:
Fellow gamers,
We bought this game recently, have played 4 times, and we have reached the following conclusions:
1-There is only 1 scenario with different variations, not 6.
2-Basically, the game is about taking the spaceports, which makes it very "static": most areas are never used or even stepped on by units.
3-There is never combat on the ship, since both sides are focused on taking the ports.
4-Bunkers are rarely used


That´s at least what happened in our games. Are we missing something? Anybody agrees with us?


Rebuttals. Well, rebuttal-like points.

1) I've only played the first scenario, so I can't speak to this point completely. However, given that this is a "historical" wargame, it's not surprising that the different scenarios are "merely" variations. That's what a historical wargame does; it lets you play out a battle from different angles to see if you could perform better than the historical outcome for your side. So, this doesn't really bother me, any more than it would bother me to play Napoleon's Triumph without a completely different battle to play.

2) I've had units in most areas on the board or considered moves that would involve the rest of the areas on the board.

3) In my last game, Horus was flushed from the Vengeful Spirit by six loyalist Marine divisions and killed on Terra. In my first game, Horus landed on Terra to lead the final push, because an Imperial Holdout victory was nigh. (We had to call the game because of time constraints, but I was going to lose, either by Horus being killed or simply on time.)

4) The fortresses have impact even if you didn't fight any straight-up battles for those fortresses. The fortification bonuses that those small bunkers get make them hard for me to ignore. Either I have to take them, so that the Imperial player can't use them to stage harrassing attacks on my flanks, or I need to land (and use) Thunderhawks to bypass those fortresses.

So, thus my thoughts.

Seth Ben-Ezra
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Mark Chaplin
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I liken this game to Bonaparte at Marengo, in that there's really only one scenario, varied by player deployment - if you so choose.



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Rauli Kettunen
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Gameluis wrote:
Fellow gamers,
We bought this game recently, have played 4 times, and we have reached the following conclusions:
1-There is only 1 scenario with different variations, not 6.


The feel of those scenarios is still (very) different. Scen 1 is a fixed setup, same units each time. Bonus is of course that setup is very quick after a game or two, like in War of the Ring, the unit locations are imprinted in memory, so no need to look at the setup chart anymore. Scen 2 gives the feeling that you got in the old game, where much of the setup was up to the players. Only minor niggle is the same Event deck as Scen 1. Which is why I'm thinking of "advancing" to scenario 3 next.

Quote:
2-Basically, the game is about taking the spaceports, which makes it very "static": most areas are never used or even stepped on by units.


Only areas that haven't seen much action has been the north-west region, Imperial Plateau for example sees action and units in them each game, and not just in the three areas adjacent to Eternity Wall and Lions Gate

Quote:
3-There is never combat on the ship, since both sides are focused on taking the ports.


Twice Horus has been killed on the ship and two or three times he has been forced to come to Terra to prevent the Imperials from attacking him on the ship. Last game, Traitors had no way to break down the defenders at the last Spaceport, so launched an all-out attack against the Emperor, who was at 8 of 10 dmg when the game ended in an Imperial Holdout victory.

Quote:
4-Bunkers are rarely used


There was no point in taking them in the old game either, just conquer them if they are adjacent to a Spaceport and/or they have a Defense Laser in them. For movement purposes, they save one movement when crossing crevasses, so at least the Imperials, with no Thunderhawks, are advised to hold on key forts. Setting up your big hitters in them (if allowed, like in Scenarios 2+), protects them from the initial orbital bombardment.
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Anthony
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GreatWolf wrote:
4) The fortresses have impact even if you didn't fight any straight-up battles for those fortresses. The fortification bonuses that those small bunkers get make them hard for me to ignore. Either I have to take them, so that the Imperial player can't use them to stage harrassing attacks on my flanks, or I need to land (and use) Thunderhawks to bypass those fortresses.


If I may add to this point, using the Fabricator General to lock down a Space Port with a fortification was something my opponent did in our first game. As it doesn't change the stacking limit of the space ( max 6) it allowed him to keep that Port for the rest of the game. It was a brilliant move on his part.
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Mark Chaplin
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drmabuse00 wrote:
GreatWolf wrote:
4) The fortresses have impact even if you didn't fight any straight-up battles for those fortresses. The fortification bonuses that those small bunkers get make them hard for me to ignore. Either I have to take them, so that the Imperial player can't use them to stage harrassing attacks on my flanks, or I need to land (and use) Thunderhawks to bypass those fortresses.


If I may add to this point, using the Fabricator General to lock down a Space Port with a fortification was something my opponent did in our first game. As it doesn't change the stacking limit of the space ( max 6) it allowed him to keep that Port for the rest of the game. It was a brilliant move on his part.


Yeah, this worked for me too.



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Eric Engstrom
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Gameluis wrote:

1-There is only 1 scenario with different variations, not 6.


I must disagree. The fixed setup and event deck of scenario 1 is drastically different than the other 5 where one picks their troop placement. There are scenarios where players build their own event deck. Still two other scenarios with extra rules affecting the play of the game (the one which makes certain zones impassable adds major deterrants to the spaceport victory).

Gameluis wrote:
2-Basically, the game is about taking the spaceports, which makes it very "static": most areas are never used or even stepped on by units.


The spaceports are the easy way to win. I've found the spaceports to be a deterrant actually. When I play the traitor, I will often go after spaceports to force and imperial response, weakening their palace position so I can get a shot at the emperor.

Gameluis wrote:
3-There is never combat on the ship, since both sides are focused on taking the ports.


This is entirely up to the players. Invading the ship requires finesse. It can either score you a quick victory, or force Horus planetbound.

Gameluis wrote:

4-(Cardboard) bunkers are rarely used


I'd have to agree here. I rarely see them used, although as I play more, I have begin using the adeptus mechanicus more often and am starting to appreciate their fortify orders. And, of course, the Fabricator General is a good hero to use for bunkering down in a spaceport.



In conclusion, I'd say yes, you're missing something. This is a game where strategy evolves as it is played. Familiarity with the cards in each deck will help.
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Chris J Davis
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Yugblad wrote:
drmabuse00 wrote:
GreatWolf wrote:
4) The fortresses have impact even if you didn't fight any straight-up battles for those fortresses. The fortification bonuses that those small bunkers get make them hard for me to ignore. Either I have to take them, so that the Imperial player can't use them to stage harrassing attacks on my flanks, or I need to land (and use) Thunderhawks to bypass those fortresses.


If I may add to this point, using the Fabricator General to lock down a Space Port with a fortification was something my opponent did in our first game. As it doesn't change the stacking limit of the space ( max 6) it allowed him to keep that Port for the rest of the game. It was a brilliant move on his part.


Yeah, this worked for me too.





Me too, though it didn't really seem to me to be a brilliant move; as soon as I drew the card that allowed me to do it it seemed obvious where the fortification should go. I almost wanted to check the rulebook to make sure there wasn't a prohibition against building fortifications on spaceports.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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"Played 4 times" and "X never happens" don't go together well. With most games of this type, it's the point at which a person has learned the rules well enough that they can free their mind to concentrate fully on the situation, and cast about for new approaches. You haven't even played enough to have tried each scenario once.
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Joachim Pehl
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1. I disagree, I only played scenario 1 and it would have played vastly different if some of the event cards were switched (which is the case with the other scenarios). The scenarios are not as diffferent as in other games, but imo the difference is much greater than expected if you consider its "historical" wargame nature. (I consider this game to ahs 4 different scenarios, I don't count the first and the last one)
2. Yes the game is about the spaceports, this is one of the victory conditions. I agree but I don't see is as a problem. This is the case with many games where you are required to hold special points.
3. Couldn't disagree more, in my games the vengeful spirit locations were important, with one exception were Horus left the Vengeful Spirit early (and was slaughtered). The imperial player has a good chance to kill Horus on the spirit if the The sky fortress rises is in play and this is imo much easier than to hold 4 spaceports (for the loyalist).
4. Agreed, I assume that I will use them more often if I use the Fabricator General more often, but even then you won't need a lot of them. But at least you can be pretty sure that you never run out.
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Luis E. Hernández
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Thanks, friends. I really appreciate all your comments and perspectives. Maybe I will give the game one more chance, then I will consider if I sell it or not.
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Ryan Morgan
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If your playing with the same friend you could use that feeling of the game always being the same to play up some different strategies. Move through different areas, attack differently.

I have used every piece in the game after only three plays.

first play, spaceport victory while I focused on trying to siege horus in his ship.

second play, horus was intentionally brought down to assault the palace and was killed.

third play, fabricator general fortified a space port and it was sieged and fell through a combination of bombardments and titans.

Each time we played, we knew what went wrong the last time and modified our play style for the next game. In doing so each game has been unique and fun.
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