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Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel! – Kursk 1943» Forums » General

Subject: map packs ..? rss

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Patrick Ward
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With the possibility of a random scenario generator still in the works does any one else think it would be a great idea to put out map packs? Not so much like the Marsh Pack as that included scenarios that obviously took time to play test and balance and then print, collate, etc.. Just maps on their own, sold in packs of similar boards.

So you could have a pack of fields, such as variants on SoS board 8; big rolling hills that span more than one board; winter boards; industrial boards; big forests; rivers as major features; etc. etc. The possibilities are endless. You could for example put out a pack of boards that when put together form a long river barrier and then include overlays for bridges, fords etc.

Just a thought.

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Kai von der Aa
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I would like to see this, because I'm also no fan of the overlay tiles from SoS.
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Edward Wehrenberg
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I think it'd be great, I'd buy 'em!
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Jacovis
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The idea intrigues me, but if it means that maps start becoming as obnoxious as some ASL maps seem to be to obtain, I'd rather not see this game go that route. Not that I'd have to worry because I'd already have them preordered, but I'd hate to see others have to go through it

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Patrick Ward
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Oh well. I'd of thought the idea might be more popular but we appear to be in the minority.
 
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Right now, my impression is that the CoH game series needs more fan made or semi-official scenarios published instead of just a bunch of new maps without the firefights to use them. The existing map boards are more than enough and have not even remotely used their potential to generate lots and lots of scenarios. If you look at M44 or similar, there is a huge list with very high quality fan-made scenarios available. I would love to see the fan base more involved into this process since after all the game series would profit from it.
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Patrick Ward
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I agree that fan made scenarios are a must and will help to make the series more attractive to new comers but then I see map or overlay packs helping that. Don't forget Mem 44 is essentially one infinitely variable map. Thats what makes it so flexible and encourages user scenarios.
 
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Jesse LeBreton
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Speaking of flexibility, does anyone know if Academy Games is considering having a PC editor created for the CoH game line? I would want the ability to place houses, forests etc anywhere I like then be able to print out the map sections so I can tape the pieces together to make my own map. Oh and of coarse a place to upload your creations too would then benefit all.
 
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Patrick Ward
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Personally I think that would be taking it too far. It sounds a great idea from the point of creating unique user scenarios but I think it would also cut into Academys profits. Map and overlay packs would be quick to design, package and distribute, they could even take user submissions. Academy make some cash and are being supported. Users get mounted maps of the same quality as the originals so they match.

The problem with map making software is that it can be very easily pirated (and it will be), wouldn't reap much of a profit after development costs and will eat into potential update sales.

A compromise maybe to release some artwork so those of us willing to spend the time can put maps together and maybe submit them as potential map pack candidates.

Again, so long as Academy, and not to mention the map artist, aren't losing money.
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Jesse LeBreton
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Well Memoir 44 seems to be selling like hotcakes due to having an open attitude. And I firmly believe that had FFG continued to support their Tide of Iron map editor by updating it to include the ability to make expansion maps too, it would have certainly helped sales. But their attitude toward not supporting the community is just downright stupid. It's like they don't want it to sell well. Case in point. There was a guy who was so dedicated to TOI that he tried to launch a fanzine called Wave of Steel. He got issue one out and we were all ecstatic. If management at FFG not had their heads up their ass they would have helped him out a little. After all he was willing to do 99% of the work for free. He just needed a tiny bit of backing and support. Instead FFG shrugs. Duh! Apparently they don't believe it would have helped their bottom line. I totally disagree.

COH is a marvelous system and anything to allow the community to freely expand it would cause more sales of the base games. Additionally, like ASL they should open it up to 3rd parties to produce more maps and scenarios. Once again, such openness would only help base sales out and turn this game into the 800 pound guerrilla of tactical board games. ASL currently is, but it's just to rules heavy to ever attain a massive popularity that this much more elegant design could attain.
 
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Patrick Ward
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I can't comment on TOI or ASL but I think you're missing the point with Mem 44. Its easy to create interesting user scenarios because the maps and overlays/tiles are already on the market. All they released was a scenario editor, not a tool for printing out full size maps. You still need to generally buy the expansions to actually play them so they're guaranteed extra sales.

There's thousands and thousands of potential Mem 44 maps. But with CoH there's effectively 10, plus some overlays. No were near the level of variety yet. But if you suddenly give players the ability to design their own scenarios AND print their own maps then Academy lose out. Personally I'd rather pay to have them properly printed on the same board as the games and know that the profit is being ploughed back into the developers.
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Quote:
There's thousands and thousands of potential Mem 44 maps. But with CoH there's effectively 10, plus some overlays. No were near the level of variety yet. But if you suddenly give players the ability to design their own scenarios AND print their own maps then Academy lose out.


Yes, M44 maps are built from scratch putting your terrain tiles on an empty map, but the M44 design has an important handicap comparing with CoH: You will always have the same board of 9 x 13 hexes (unless you use the overlord maps, but this is an exception to increase the player number, not a scenario complexity). Those 9 x 13 hexes severely restrict your options if you want to picture a) interesting tactical situations or b) historical events, because you have to distill historic facts into a simplistic and highly abstract 9 x 13 grid which leads to a strict limit in counter/unit density. In the end, you can build hundreds of maps, but if you look at them a bit from the distance, most of them look the same with only a few details differing.

A single CoH map gives much more space, and adding more maps (the limit is the table space) gives you the chance to simulate encounters ranging from a few platoons up to several companies. Since you can combine so many maps, you are free to choose on the scale of the encounter, and you are free to restrict the shape & orientation by defining borderlines (like some firefights already do). This gives you the chance to recreate historic events with much more detail than M44, and I do not think that in this case it is important wether hex XY is a woods hex or not. Now add in the overlays, and M44 is loses out. And - CoH is still at the beginning. Wait until it has as many expansions released as M44, and I do not think that too few map boards will be an issue at all. Look at ASL - it has fix designed geomorphic maps like CoH. Does anyone ever complain about too few existing boards?

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Patrick Ward
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Well in case anyone is in doubt I'd also buy them. I'd also happily design a few.
 
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Björn Hansson
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Map packs sounds sweet.

I would really like to see historically correct maps of some interesting battles, perhaps even with some special rules and/or units for a more historical feel. To me that would really improve the game series!
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uwe eickert
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Patrick,
I did not see this post until you mentioned it in another posting. Sorry.
Björn,
I agree with you that some historical based maps and also a better means of creating one's own scenarios would be cool. We have to take one step at a time though, beginning with publishing one or two more games in different theaters with different nationalities. Then I think we can get into the specifics that you mentioned.

As for design help, I may take Patrick on for Crete. The New Zealanders (Kiwis appropriate?) and Brits kicked some ass!
Uwe
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Patrick Ward
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Yeah I thought you might of missed it. It was unlike you to not reply.

As for Crete, if you're serious then I would be interested in helping out. Keep in touch.
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I would definitely buy map packs if they were available. I do like the modular boards a lot, like how the game changes based on what units are present and what orientation the board has. But when I see a map section of Stalingrad, Omaha beach, or Monte Cassino, that is were my excitement shoots though the roof.

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uwe eickert
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Hmmm.... So if we did a huge map, similar to what we are doing for Gettysburg, should it be mounted? You have not seen the map yet, but it is gorgeous. When I show it to people, they think it is a poster. 3D rendered. It is rather large though. (Think 110% of 8 CoH boards put together.)
We could do the same for famous battle sites... Hmmm....
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Kai von der Aa
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Uwe, I would love to see some big maps for famous battle sites. Surely it would awesome to have also adequate firefights lasting 12 rounds for example and with a lot units on it. Why not playing a CoH game lasting 3-4 hours. It worked with Axis & Allies and so on. Why not an epic CoH game.

As richard foth already wrote: Stalingrad, Monte Cassino. Perhaps Kasserine. Replay of some larger areas of the Kursk battle or the advance to Moscow. I think about some of the maps in the Osprey books.

Go for it (so much to do, so less done - no, I know you spend a lot of time for it).

PS: As I don't like overlay terrain (I think you should have the map and only the units on it as it's best) - why not printing a map always on both sides of the board? Drop away overlays and have always a standard variant on one side and a changed version with/without/with changed buildings woods, rivers? It may be cheaper producing 4 two-sided boards than 6 one-sided boards and overlays. With a total of 8 different maps for playing, even if 4 can be used at one time. Sell the same boards then as expansion for the players who want to design their one big battles using all 8 maps at the same time. Just an idea.
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Jesse LeBreton
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I would buy any map packs that come out because I want more variety after I finish all the fire fights in the book.

Oh and what is this Civil War project you got going? Is there a thread for it? Does it use a similar rule set to CoH?
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James Palmer
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uweeickert wrote:
Hmmm.... So if we did a huge map, similar to what we are doing for Gettysburg, should it be mounted? You have not seen the map yet, but it is gorgeous. When I show it to people, they think it is a poster. 3D rendered. It is rather large though. (Think 110% of 8 CoH boards put together.)
We could do the same for famous battle sites... Hmmm....


A vote for mounted maps. To me this is a defining characteristic of Academy Games games.
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uwe eickert
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Gettysburg
Jesse,
I really need to start a page for Gettysburg, since we already are far along into the project. This is a brigade level game that John Hill and I have designed. The counters are regiments and the game is a meld of Johnny Reb and CoH. The difference is that all of the regiments in a brigade take an action together. Each brigade has its own card on which the stats are represented graphically. So as a regiment takes damage, its abilities change.

A fast and furious new system for 2-8 players.

Uwe
 
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uwe eickert
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Gettysburg
Oh, and the map will blow you away!
 
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Mike M
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Felkor wrote:
A vote for mounted maps. To me this is a defining characteristic of Academy Games games.


I agree, definitely mounted maps. Are they in the plans for the Gettysburg game?
 
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Kai von der Aa
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Oh...and mounted please.

And if you have the time: Set up the page and show us the map, please.

 
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