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Subject: Cheating - venting rss

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Denise Lavely
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Had a game day Friday with the usual group. One of the women was talking about how she had played some game with her six year old a few days before, which the mom had won by cheating at, by taking advantage of the fact that the girl doesn't read too well & telling her that spaces on the board said to pay money when she was supposed to collect money, and so on. Her husband, who was also at the game night (but who never plays games with us, just observes, and now I understand why!!), said that when he caught on, he told the daughter what was happening, and the daughter promptly got mad and refused to play with the mom any more, which seems like a PERFECTLY reasonable response to me.

The mom was laughing the whole time she told this story. She bragged that she cheats at games whenever she thinks she can & it's ok for her to do so because she wants to teach her daughter to be on the lookout for people who are trying to rip her off in real life, which sounds pretty lame to me. What about teaching your children good sportsmanship and trust? How heinous!!! I think she really just can't bear to lose, even to her own daughter, which is really sad.

Anyway, for SOME reason she had trouble finding partners for games she wanted to play for the rest of the night (gee I wonder why) and it will be a long, long time before she gets invited to another game night at my house again. Geez!!! What is wrong with some people?
 
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Arnaud Delabre
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Must be extremely frustrating to her daughter... She wants to teach "real life" but teaches only distrust and disgust. Sounds pretty weird anyway; I've never met such a "player".
 
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Luca Iennaco
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:(
The only "right" answer to cheaters is not to play with them any more.
Pity for the little girl, but maybe she can find some friends to play with her!
 
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Marc Kob
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Don't abandon the daughter
As annoying as this ladies behavior was,if you never invite her over again she may never learn the error of her ways.

The laughing at cheating against her daughter sounds like a lot of insecurity being masked. Maybe she needs your friendship and modeling of sportsmanhip to show her that games are about enjoying yourself and others, not preparing your children to be swindle proof.

(steps off moral soap box)

Hears muttering in back of hall, "Get a grip, I hold a game night, not a group therapy session, sheesh."


I just feel like the daughter is doomed to hate boardgames with out an intervention.
 
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David Fair
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KIds learn more than parents teach
Unfortunately for this Mom, what her daughter has really learned is that her Mom can't be trusted, that winning a game is more important to her mother than this little girl's feelings are, and that having to deal with cheaters makes a game no fun.

Very sad.
 
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Jason Sample
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Cheatin'
Ridiculous! I hear that in some countries, they cut of your hands for cheating...or is that the punishment for stealing?

I agree, that does not seem like a goos lesson to teach a six year old.
 
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Chris Pieters
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and the Dad?
I feel just as sad for the Dad in this case. He's being put on the spot to be the rat! Yup, definitely something a little off with the Mom. Her daughter is likely to build up distrust of the Mom in ALL situations, not just gaming.

I've never encountered an out-and-out cheater, but I have seen people that play full-tilt even when CLEARLY outplaying a very young (4-year-old) opponent in a game requiring dexterity.

Some people just don't know where to draw the line.
 
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Hans Persson
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What a dork!

Next time, invite the daughter instead.
 
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Scott A. Reed
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Wow.. I've never met someone who needed an ego boost so bad that they cheated against a child, much less their own child, at a boardgame.

Last week Chaddyboy was in town and came over with his fiancee to play games. We were playing Trias and she was trying to wrap her head around a situation on the board. I pointed out to her that if she made some certain moves then it would be the most advantageous to her, even if it would knock off some of my dinos. She was puzzled why I would help to my own detriment, and I reminded her that it was a game and the joy was in playing, not necessarily in winning.
 
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Jody Ludwick
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I'm with Hans. Invite the daughter to play instead.

At least she'll learn 'real' sportsmanship and how to win and lose a game with grace.

Life's leasons will come with time.
 
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Sheesh, what a story.
I used to play less than optimally versus my sons when they were younger until they got a good grasp of the game. Then I'd ramp up to better play as they improved. The whole point being to make gamers out of them.

In the same situation, I wouldn't have ratted the mom out in front of the daughter, though. There would have been a "private" conversation with my wife first.

I've dated a shrink and two psychologists. There was nothing to be gained from either parents choices of actions.

 
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Paul DeStefano
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This woman is destined to raise a daughter who cheats and hates her mom.

Speaking of which, knowing she cheats whenever she can, maybe hubby just comes along to make sure the only games played are board games.
 
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castiglione
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Hmmm...
This is pretty bad IMHO.

The whole point of playing a game is to have fun, which includes winning but WITHIN THE RULES.

If you're going to cheat, why bother playing the game? The fact that she's cheating is a sad reflection on her character, even more so as she's cheating against her young daughter.
 
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jefF, There are some who call me... DuneKitteh
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Once a cheater...
I just simply can't understand the mentality behind cheating at a friendly/family game (not saying I approve of people that cheat at money or competitive / tournament games, but I can understand more of the mental why-for there). Really, what kind of win of victory is it if you have to break the rules of the game to get it - does a person like that REALLY feel like they've accomplished something? You might as well not even play IMHO.
 
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Tim Deagan
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Young kids learn primarily by modelling. All Mom is teaching is 'Cheat when you can.' Aargh.

The Dad's comment reminds me of a learning experience I had once:

I used to work as an archaeologist in St. Augustine, FL.. All the archaeologists lived in a old house with a 2nd floor balcony in the restored section of the city that only allowed foot traffic. We would sit on the top balcony and people watch. One day I JBWeld'd (super-epoxy) a quarter to the street in front of the house. As people came by, we scored their attempts to pull it up (1 pt. for kick, 5 pts. for bending over and using hands, 10 pts. for using a tool and 20 pts. for coming back to try again.)

One afternoon a boy about 9 was giving it his all, he'd scored 36 pts. and just wouldn't give up. Finally, almost in tears, he calls out 'Dad, I don't understand.' His father, who had been patiently waiting walked over, kneeled down beside the kid, put his arm around his shoulder, pointed up at us on the balcony and said, 'See those people up there, they're laughing at you.'

The kid looked up at us, got a look in his eye that I'll never forget and walked away with his Dad.

I felt like killing myself. I ran downstairs to try and give the kid a dollar or something else lame like that, but could never find them.

Cured me for life of pranks like that.
--tim
 
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Denise Lavely
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Thanks!
Thanks for all the comments - this is a woman I'm trying really hard to be friends with for the sake of her kids, but her behavior sometimes is SO bizarre. Sometimes it's good for me to hear that it's NOT just that I'm over-reacting to her weirdness.
 
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E Corcoran
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mommy dearest
That mother reminds me of the scene in the flick about Joan Crawford in which she has a swimming race against her young daughter, and after she beats the daughter handily, tells her "You can't win against me because I'm stronger and bigger than you."
 
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Chester
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I started to write a reply, but all I can do is be judgemental...which isn't very helpful.

Its disappointing that a parent would do that, but its also disappointing that a parent would physically abuse a child...and that happens plenty frequently, too.

The thing troubling me the most however, is the mental image of scribidinus and his 4-some of psychologists/therapists. [shudder] I have a new respect for the man.
 
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MK
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Invite the Daughter instead
Next time you have a game night, invite the daughter and her dad, but not mom. She'll get the picture pretty quick.
 
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David Me
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There's actually an article that promotes the other lady's viewpoint:

http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=...

An excerpt: "Psychotherapist Phillip Hodson, Fellow of the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy, said: 'All young people need preparing for the outside world and playing board games with tricky adults is a useful introduction to that.'"

I don't quite agree with the above article, but it shows another viewpoint. Maybe it just doesn't give enough details.

Any cheating I do in games with them is just to see if they catch it, to see there reaction, after which we laugh about it and correct things.

I think my nieces and nephews learn this preparation for "cheaters" from my amateur magic I do for them.

And unfortunately kids at school usually give PLENTY of preparation for the all sorts of harsh realities of life.
 
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David Me
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Oops, editing error. Paragraph 3 above, beginning "Any cheating", is talking about my neices an nephews.
 
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Anderson Tao
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maybe...
well, we all have cheated in some point of our lives. i know i have. the only difference is some of us have yet to be caught. maybe confronting her of her problem would better help the situation. if she still refuses to change her ways, then banish her.
 
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Chester...
don't let your imagination run wild. It was one at a time but one was the widow of a Native American Shaman (peyote use is legal in that church) and one of them was bi. And the answer to both questions is NO, darn it.

Denise,

I stand by my comment that the Dad should have addressed the issue with his wife's cheating in private first. He probably did not because...well it's so obvious I won't waste the pixels to explain it. (emoticon deleted)

In short, the young lady learned that her Mother is a REMORSLESS CHEATER AND her Dad is a SPINELESS SNITCH! Does he look or act like William H Macy?

Neither seem to be desirable traits and the entire marriage is probably doomed. An ugly custody fight is probable, too. (emoticon deleted)




 
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Paul B.
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Cheating OK?
The article from Yorkshire made it sound like the Psychotherapist was sanctioning cheating. Excerpted a single quote which makes it sound that way, but I'll bet was embedded in a dozen caveats and considerations. Overt cheating with a child, particularly a small child will only teach distrust of those that you should have every right to trust absolutely. However, the quoted therapist said that playing with 'tricky' adults was a good thing for a kid to learn from. I agree. Tricky doesn't equate to cheating. It equates to cleverness in taking advantage of situations, rules, etc.

As someone else pointed out, children largely learn by modeling other's behaviors. If you want them to learn to cheat, then by all means cheat. If you want them to learn to respect the rules, but also learn how to bend, maximize opportunity, and otherwise manage the rules, do that and they will learn.

Paul (a psychologist, too)
 
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Becky Zamborsky
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Denise - You're way more forgiving than I by trying to still be friends with this woman. She sounds like a "whack job" to me. I feel sorry for the daughter.

Scrib - Umm, yeah okay...
 
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