Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » OLD BGGBlogs (do not use)

Subject: Picture Ratings: stop the massacre? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Julien G.
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Now don't get me wrong. I highly appreciate the time and efforts that Aldie and Derk (and others) put into maintaining and enhancing the website through new or better features. That being said, allow me to take issue with the new possiblity to rate pictures.

Let me put it that way: I don't really see the point in rating pictures. Don't we all instantly rate a pic the moment we see it? Can't we appreciate its quality at a glance? It's not like we're talking about lenghty articles or reviews; in that case I agree it's nice to have an idea of the quality of the writing before plunging into it. Not so with pictures; with the "View All Images", we can have a quick look at all the pics and then enlarge the one we deem interesting. It's not like there's zillions of pictures for a given game (with the possible exception of War of the Rings, with its dozens of variations on the painting of miniatures)... So I think there's just no need to rate pictures to achieve a ranking (and being able to only see the 10s or 9s or...)

Another possible goal would be to eliminate bad pictures, you say? Well I agree this is a worthy goal. But it could be accomplish much more easily than with the current rating system. Alongside each picture, just put a box called "junk" or "monopolyesque" (to take a cheap shot at a game) or whatever name to the same effect, that can be checked by the user. After a certain number (or percentage of the views) with the box checked, the picture could be either removed, or flagged for an admin to review and decide. Simple, light and efficient, I think.

If the majority (or those in command for that matter) decide that rating pictures is good and necessary, at least, please, it's imperative to post an official rating scale (similar with the game ratings one), so everybody plays with the same rules. I feel like crying (well not really) when I see how pictures are rated currently. In my opinion (and again, if the picture ratings are to be kept), I find a 10 point scale a bit of an overkill for pictures.

What do we want in a picture? I say it has to be technically good, and informative. That's all. When I see some ratings guides posted (no offense guys), with criteria such as "either one or more of those elements stands out or the subject matter is very unique or interesting" or "there is a certain flair to the photo or the photo was taken in a very creative way", I wonder. I'm going to upload a picture of Nightmare Chess soon (a card game), I'm not quite sure how I will make a card stand out in a very unique way... Without dwelling over the fact that a lot of users (me included) don't feel inclined, nor have the knowledge, to play photographies critics, I'd say I don't really care about artsy pictures of boardgames. It's more than geeky, it's totally irrelevant and gets in the way of appreciating games. I believe there's more interesting subjects for artsy shots.

Now: technically good; informative. That's all. I can see a 1 to 5 scale is all that's needed.

5. Technically good (no flash reflect, good framing, etc.) and informative (can shows the whole board to have an idea of its size, or a close up of miniatures, or the box cover in all its glory; all are equally informative).
4. Still informative, but technically mediocre.
3. Technically good, but not informative (we don't learn anything about the game).
2. Technically mediocre, and not informative.
1. Should be removed (not in accordance with BGG's policies, offensive, off topic -- the pic of a guy about to pass the One Ring on his finger springs to mind here...).

That's all. Clear and easy on my limited critic capabilities. It might help putting a halt to the current situation in which we might need soon to allow commentaries on the ratings, for the differences of appreciation between users are catastrophic.

That's it folks, I'm off my soapbox. Thanks for reading; I'm sure we can make this thing even better.

To summarize:

1. Remove the possiblity to rate pictures.
2. If the removal of bad pictures is the goal, add the checkbox "junk" feature.
3. If the picture ratings is to be kept, at least post an official rating guides. Consider a 5 point scale, clearer and easier.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luca Iennaco
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
I agree
You've convinced me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pierce Ostrander
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I Like the new list
Actually, I kind of like the new feature. It is another way to look at a list of items that are linked to games.

I view the list, and click on games that look cool. I read about the game, I imagine what it would be like to play it, I look at the ratings, etc. I have fun on the geek looking at a game that I might not ever otherwise "click" on. One of the reasons I come to the geek.

The validity of the rating is unimportant.

Foob
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
SAKURA in KYOTO 2018 Back to Kansai
England
York
North Yorkshire
flag msg tools
admin
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1-5
Aldie,

It's early days but I think the scale of 1-10 is way out. Check this page:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/picbrowse.php3?filter=rated&use...
3 games, Pool Position, Hydra, Kopf Oder Knopf. 1 rating each, one gets a 3, one gets a 7, one gets a 4. These are identical shots. Same style, same content, same lighting, same focus, same detail. No difference between them, but three different ratings.

What are people using to make these judgements? What are their criteria? What's the difference between a 7 and a 8?

I suggest you call a halt now and let some sensible discussion occur. Personally I think a 1-5 scale is enough, but whatever scale you use, there has to be some guidance.

Madness? Not quite, but close. Pointless? At the moment, yes.

BTW, I agree that the thumbnail on RION is too small too judge. Size matters. There are also some bugs, since I found one with a perfect thumnnail but the full picture was only half there.

Cheers,
Jon.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Hamilton
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni!
badge
Ekki-ekki-ekki-pitang-zoom-boing!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Personally, I would expect that ratings would have relatively little effect of the database, with only the most useless pics removed. Mostly I like ratings beause it gives me another excuse to spend way too much time crawling through the Geek.

I agree that rating criteria needs to be clarified for consistency.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
skippen
United States
Greeley
Colorado
flag msg tools
admin
Cary Grant, 1904 - 1986
badge
How old Cary Grant? Old Cary Grant fine. How you?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Calm Down
It is just rating pictures. Don't get so worked up about them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
SAKURA in KYOTO 2018 Back to Kansai
England
York
North Yorkshire
flag msg tools
admin
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
384
I've submitted nearly 400 so far. I'm narked. If it is just a bit of fun, then it is pointless and I'll quit fretting.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Play Games - Interact - Have Fun!
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jon,

Unfortunately, with only one rating that is going to happen. It may have been the same person rating all three or (more likely) 3 different people rating each seperately. We are going to get all kinds of screwy results until each picture has 20+ ratings.

Perhaps a Bayasian Average is needed for the pictures too.

Personally I like the 1-10 scale, as it allows you to really give your ratings some thought. I'm sure there are plenty of kids on here that may just look at a picture and either say "that sucks" or "that's cool!" and hit 1 or 10 respectively. Until all pics have enough ratings the weirdness will continue.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Pfeiffer
United States
Surfside Beach
South Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They're only pictures
Although I have rated a few pictures I really wonder about the value of this effort. Heck these are just pictures! There will be nothing special anywhere for any game listed. Most of the time the picture is simply a picture of the box of a game or the back of the box or the pieces that are on the inside. Yes its nice to see what a game looks like especially one that one does not own but really, a rating!!

Who cares! What does that rating tell anyone about whether or not they should buy or want to play the game in question.

About the only way that this could be of some value is by creating some way of getting rid of badly focused, too dark, too light or duplicate pictures in the data base.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shannon Appelcline
United States
Berkeley
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And how is it again that rating pictures killed your dog and took your job?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
SAKURA in KYOTO 2018 Back to Kansai
England
York
North Yorkshire
flag msg tools
admin
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dog
My dog was ashamed at the poor ratings my pictures got and ran into the street where he was run over by a truck. My boss was apalled at the fact I couldn't get better than a 4 for a perfectly decent box shot, blamed our company's poor sales on this and fired me.

Satisfied?

If everyone's judgement is so wild, ALL the photos will end up around 5 except the extremes at either end. So it is pointless.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shannon Appelcline
United States
Berkeley
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Do you write posts about how games are broken and should be fixed before you even play them too?

Thinking that most ratings will approach 5 is as foolish as thinking that most game ratings would do so as well, since everyone's judgement about the quality of games is different, after all.

When Aldie & co. have a better consensus of picture ratings, they can do all kinds of cool things including:

1. Mark very low-rated pictures for potential deletion.

2. Make high-rated pictures more likely to appear as the default picture on a game page.

3. Give the option to list the pictures for a game in descending order of quality rather than in order of most recently submitted.

4. Mark members who continually submit bad pictures for more careful scrutiny when OKing pictures.

As a side benefit, it might make people more likely to rate articles, which would be even more useful.

On the other hand it gives the photographers solid feedback on which of their pictures are "better" and which are "worse", and that sort of criticism is exactly what can help improve people's creative endeavors.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chester
United States
Temple
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Youth culture killed my dog.

And mark down one check in the box "ignores the whole concept of picture ratings, still views all photos" for me please.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Christenson
Canada
Hay Lakes
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It just adds abit of fun. I like it. I've submitted pics, and will continue to do so. :-\ I'd like to know what others think of those.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Christenson
Canada
Hay Lakes
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hmmm. scratch the above comment. I have a 4 on my Lost Cities pic, which I happen to think is really good. What the heck?

I beleive people are thinking that my pics are uploaded from another site or something.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shannon Appelcline
United States
Berkeley
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I just glanced at your LC picture.

Personally, I find it very nicely modeled & composed, with a good emphasis on all the components, but also too big (I have to scroll on both of my computers), a little blurry (particularly in the cards), and a little low contrast. I also don't like the look of the drop shadows on the white background, which look artificial. I think that if you ran it through an Unsharp Mask and fiddled with the contrast it might improve. But I'd still rate it a 5 or 7. (I have the most problems judgding too big pictures because I can't judge them by their gestalt because I can't see the whole thing.)

But, take that with a grain of salt; I think my own pics run the gamut from crap to slightly above average, but thankfully I think they run that gamut in chronological time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.