Miikka Sohlman
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Ugh, the hedge rules are so dense I have trouble deciphering it. I'm gonna make some assumptions here (to straighten things up in my head) so correct me if I'm wrong. I also have questions.

LOS
In these cases the LOS in blocked:

A | B
A - B
A > B

And here LOS does exists:

A| B
A- B
A> B

But I don't get the three hexspine -< stuff.
According to the example LOS is blocked in:
A-< B

But what about
A>- B
or even
A>-< B ?

(In the last example B should be adjacent to the < character. < + something next to it seems to be a problematic combo in these forums (even with code tags). Try it. (I lost half of what I wrote when I tried to preview.)

TEM and "wall advantage"
A has TEM +1 in

A| B
A- B
A> B

But does both have TEM +1 in
A-B ?

I suppose the "wall advantage" comes only into play when both sides are adjacent to each other and there's a hedge between them. In that case whoever was there first claims the +1 TEM "wall advantage" but not the other. So if A was there first in:
A|B

It has the advantage and not B.
But what if later another squad of "team A" joins A in its hex, does it also get the advantage even if B was already there adjacent to A?

Also, can a lone leader claim wall advantage?

Finally, does the hedge graphic itself block LOS or is it only there to illustrate that this hexspine has hedge on it?
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Jay Richardson
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Miikka Sohlman wrote:
LOS
In these cases the LOS in blocked:

A | B
A - B
A > B

And here LOS does exists:

A| B
A- B
A> B

But I don't get the three hexspine -< stuff.
According to the example LOS is blocked in:
A-< B

The three hexspine rule simply covers a case where the other rules conflict with each other. In the following image, the LOS is blocked by the hedge:



And with a different hedge configuration, LOS does exist:



But what happens if both hedges are present? Is the LOS blocked (as in the first case above), or is it clear (as in the second case)?



The three hexspine rule resolves the conflict by declaring that the LOS is blocked.

Miikka Sohlman wrote:
But what about
A>- B
or even
A>-< B ?

In both of these cases, the LOS is clear because any vertex with three hedges is adjacent to either the firing unit or the target unit.

For example, in the following image, LOS exists between D2 and both E1 and F9 (because the vertex with three hedges is adjacent to one of the units involved). But there is no LOS between C4 and either E1 or F9 (because the vertex with three hedges would not be adjacent to any of the units in those hexes).



Miikka Sohlman wrote:
TEM and "wall advantage"
A has TEM +1 in

A| B
A- B
A> B

But does both have TEM +1 in
A-B ?

Yes.

Miikka Sohlman wrote:
I suppose the "wall advantage" comes only into play when both sides are adjacent to each other and there's a hedge between them.

Yes.

Miikka Sohlman wrote:
In that case whoever was there first claims the +1 TEM "wall advantage" but not the other. So if A was there first in:
A|B

It has the advantage and not B.
But what if later another squad of "team A" joins A in its hex, does it also get the advantage even if B was already there adjacent to A?

Yes: "That side's units will then retain the advantage until the enemy steals the advantage by having the only Good Order unit to share that hexside."

Wall advantage is easier to understand when using the extra-large hexes of Deluxe ASL. In the following image, the American squad was in J1 before the German squad entered K1, so they have the wall advantage. This means that the Americans can take positions along the hedge itself and benefit from its TEM, while the Germans are left standing out in the open with no TEM protection. Should additional American units enter J1, they would join the first squad along the hedge.



(In the image above, the actual positioning of the two squads is not mandated by the rules; it's just an easy way for the players to remember which side holds the wall advantage. Full ASL has "Wall Advantage" counters that can be used to mark units/stacks that hold the wall advantage, but in Deluxe ASL you can often show wall advantage just by the relative positioning of the units.)

Miikka Sohlman wrote:
Also, can a lone leader claim wall advantage?

Yes, because leaders are units.

Miikka Sohlman wrote:
Finally, does the hedge graphic itself block LOS or is it only there to illustrate that this hexspine has hedge on it?

The wording of the rule makes it clear that the hedge depiction itself can block LOS, and the same wording is used in the full ASL rules as well. However, I have never seen a situation in which a LOS was blocked by a hedge depiction without the LOS actually crossing a hedge hexside/hexspine/vertex. I suspect that it's possible... but I think it's unlikely that you will ever see it happen.
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Miikka Sohlman
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Wow, super detailed answer with pictures! Didn't expect that. It all makes sense. Once again, thank you very much!
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Greg Taylor
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Once again, thank you Jay for making the ASL rules clear. This is exactly what I was looking for.
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Erik
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Jay does it again! Should be included as appendixes in the Starter Kit rules books .
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Erez Ben-Aharon
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richfam wrote:

Wall advantage is easier to understand when using the extra-large hexes of Deluxe ASL. In the following image, the American squad was in J1 before the German squad entered K1, so they have the wall advantage. This means that the Americans can take positions along the hedge itself and benefit from its TEM, while the Germans are left standing out in the open with no TEM protection. Should additional American units enter J1, they would join the first squad along the hedge.


Hmm... it kinda looks like the SK rules follow the DASL HEXSIDE based WA, rather than the normal ASL HEX based WA (which precludes you from getting WA on ANY hexside of your hex, if an enemy already has WA on one of the hexsides). Am I assuming correctly here?
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James
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Remember that hedges and bocage have different rules associated with them, and I believe bocage is present in Beyond the Beachhead.
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Jay Richardson
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Erez Ben-Aharon wrote:
Hmm... it kinda looks like the SK rules follow the DASL HEXSIDE based WA, rather than the normal ASL HEX based WA (which precludes you from getting WA on ANY hexside of your hex, if an enemy already has WA on one of the hexsides). Am I assuming correctly here?

Now that you mention it, that does seem how the rules are written:

Quote:
The first Good Order unit to share a hedge hexside with no Good Order enemy unit on the other side gains the advantage over that hexside. That side’s units will then retain the advantage until the enemy steals the advantage by having the only Good Order unit to share that hexside.

As to why they did it this way... I'm just guessing here, but since there are no Wall Advantage counters in ASLSK, and the scenarios tend to be smaller, the "first side there gets the +1 TEM" is probably simpler for ASLSK players to understand than the full ASL rule.

And it's more realistic! The full ASL rule is a compromise for playability, as trying to keep track of WA on a hexside-by-hexside basis could be a nightmare in a large scenario on the standard size hexes.
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Erez Ben-Aharon
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richfam wrote:

And it's more realistic! The full ASL rule is a compromise for playability, as trying to keep track of WA on a hexside-by-hexside basis could be a nightmare in a large scenario on the standard size hexes.


I know... but there is a certain 'game-y-ness' to how it works in ASL that I do enjoy (denying WA to opponent on multiple hexsides by establishing WA on just one of them, etc.) so I noticed it right away. No doubt it was done for usability since the hexes are smaller in non-DASL, but I still like how it turned out to be.

What did trouble me is that it is a huge departure from how most 'graduates' are going to play in the end (they will most likely play ASL and not DASL which is out of print and somewhat niche) - much more of a departure than - for example - the Random Selection/select randomly conundrum. In any case, when I teach newbies the hedgerow scenarios from SK I think I will just teach them the ASL way (since this is how they will end up playing it in the end).
 
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