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Subject: The Cosmodex 2.0: An Encyclopedia for Cosmic Encounter rss

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Randall Barnes
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Re: The Cosmodex 2.0: An Encyclopedia for Cosmic Encounter (now including Cosmic Conflict)
Thanks for adding my strategy article to your links! I'm flattered you think so highly of it!
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Greg Filpus
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Re: The Cosmodex 2.0: An Encyclopedia for Cosmic Encounter (now including Cosmic Conflict)
One more thing I noticed when taking a look at Felicia Cano's DeviantArt- she weighs in on the Zombie vs. Virus art question here. She did draw it as Zombie, and the original request was for a nonclassic zombie.
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Just a Bill
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Re: The Cosmodex 2.0: An Encyclopedia for Cosmic Encounter (now including Cosmic Conflict)
Yeah, I saw that too, and I've been wondering if I should roll back all the "should have been swapped" business, including the link to the replacement sheet images. When I thought it was a mistake, it seemed like a no-brainer; but now I'm just bucking reality.

What do you think?

trojo wrote:
Tick-Tock's victory condition depends on running out of counters on "this" (i.e. Tick-Tock's) alien sheet, not "your" or "the player's" alien sheet. So, the way I read it, if Plant steals Tick-Tock's power, tokens are still removed from "this" (Tick-Tock's) sheet, and Tick-Tock's sheet would be the one consulted to check for victory condition. Thus, with this interpretation, Plant could still win with Tick-Tock's power, but it would depend on stealing the power and then arranging for the last token to be removed during that encounter. I don't know if that is the original intent of the rules-writers, but it works better than the "leak" interpretation.

Yeah, I wouldn't expect anyone to actually play by that interpretation; it's just my snarking way of griping about the sloppiness. I've been waiting for some kind of official rulings on the various questions surrounding the effects that duplicate or steal other powers, but in the meantime I should probably delete the Tick-Tick snark.
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Michael Marvosh
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Re: The Cosmodex 2.0: An Encyclopedia for Cosmic Encounter (now including Cosmic Conflict)
Bill Martinson wrote:
:Fodder: Plays Additional Low Cards (Y) You have the power to Overwhelm. As a main player, you may use this power after both you and your opponent reveal attack cards {in an encounter}. You may discard any or all attack cards in your hand that are both higher than the attack card you played and lower than the attack card played by your opponent, adding their value to your total.
(Main Player Only) (Optional) (Reveal)

Always regarded as an inferior, scavenging race, the Fodder have amassed a multitude of generally less-effective arms. With the astonishingly large cache of second-rate weapons, the Fodder can afford to overwhelm their adversaries.

Wild: {If} After encounter cards are revealed, if you were invited to {join an encounter} ally and declined, you may {join} ally with one ship on a side that invited you {after cards are revealed}.
(Not Main Player or Ally) (Reveal)

Super: {You may use your power to discard attack cards that are equal to or lower than the card you played.} When you use your power, the attack cards you discard do not have to be higher than the one you revealed.
(Main Player Only) (Reveal)

Edited for wording consistency, to clarify that Wild Fodder does not allow you to join a side that did not invite you, and to resolve Super Fodder's ambiguity.


Would this be a simpler way to clear up the ambiguity?

Super: When you use your power, you may also {use your power to} discard attack cards that are equal to or lower than the card you played.
(Main Player Only) (Reveal)

That's the only problem I have with the red edits, and I'm not even sure it's a better fix.

It's hard to evaluate what I think about the Cosmodex. It's so huge that I can't help but be overwhelmed when I think about offering feedback. I'm not sure where to start or what to think about how all these various powers interact.

Any suggestions?
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Xagyg
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Macron has so many "uses"
I see the Cosmodex has a revised version of Macron, but why not only have one "use", as follows ...

Quote:
:Macron: Each Ship is Worth 4 (G) You have the power of Mass. As the offense or an ally, you may only send one ship into the encounter. As a main player or ally, use this power after encounter cards are revealed. Each of your ships counts as 4 toward your side's total instead of 1.


Can't you stipulate as a rule that you can only send 1 ship to an encounter, and then leave the USE for the reveal stage? I think I'm missing something.
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Just a Bill
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Re: The Cosmodex 2.0: An Encyclopedia for Cosmic Encounter (now including Cosmic Conflict)
Drinkdrawers wrote:
Would this be a simpler way to clear up the ambiguity?

Super: When you use your power, you may also {use your power to} discard attack cards that are equal to or lower than the card you played.
(Main Player Only) (Reveal)

That's the only problem I have with the red edits, and I'm not even sure it's a better fix.

I think it is a better fix. Mine almost sounds like a double negative, and takes some thought to process. Yours is more simple and straightforward. Great improvement!

Drinkdrawers wrote:
It's hard to evaluate what I think about the Cosmodex. It's so huge that I can't help but be overwhelmed when I think about offering feedback. I'm not sure where to start or what to think about how all these various powers interact.

Any suggestions?

It is daunting. Even though I've been building this in some form or other for years, when it came time to finally publish, it was a massive effort. Do whatever you're comfortable with, but my revisions generall fall into a couple of types:

1. I'm looking up a power or somebody says something that sparks a thought, and I come see if I need to revise one or two entries.

2. Sometimes I pick one topic that concerns a class of effects, and then go through the related effects individually to see if there is something that needs to be addressed systemically.

But really, just do whatever you want. The easiest thing is probably just to use it as your occasional reference, and when you notice something give me a yell.

xagyg wrote:
I see the Cosmodex has a revised version of Macron, but why not only have one "use", as follows ...

Quote:
:Macron: Each Ship is Worth 4 (G) You have the power of Mass. As the offense or an ally, you may only send one ship into the encounter. As a main player or ally, use this power after encounter cards are revealed. Each of your ships counts as 4 toward your side's total instead of 1.

Can't you stipulate as a rule that you can only send 1 ship to an encounter, and then leave the USE for the reveal stage? I think I'm missing something.

You'll have to ask FFG about that. They published text for Macron at least three times (initial preview, revised printed version, FAQ errata), and still never got it right. I took their "final" errata and fixed the problems with that.

I think you're right that it could be simplified and improved, but this power has been such a repeated writing disaster that I've tried to mostly ignore it for my sanity's sake.

Your suggestion has merit, but frankly if I were going to actually change the function of this power, I would remove the zappability from the reveal phase (reverting it to FFG's pre-FAQ version) because it's such a liability that it makes me not want to play as Macron.
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Ethidium Bromide
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Re: The Cosmodex 2.0: An Encyclopedia for Cosmic Encounter (now including Cosmic Conflict)
Quote:
:moose: A moose is a ruminant quadruped, the largest member of the deer family, and known for its large antlers. Moose are distinguished members of the select club of animal species whose names are both singular and plural.


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Eigen
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Very minor alteration I would make to this epic CE resource;
In the Cosmic Incursion reward deck card distribution it says:

4 Rifts: 3,4,5

Should there be a subscripted x2 after one of these?
(As there is with the attack cards?)
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Just a Bill
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Eigen wrote:
Should there be a subscripted x2 after one of these?

Indeed there should. Good catch, and thanks!
 
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Christopher Walker
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Wow. Out-freakin'-standing project. Thanks so much for doing this. I would love to see it in actual book form someday, too. /dream Maybe you can get cozy with FF sometime and get paid for it!
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Cameron McKenzie
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trojo wrote:
Quote:
Leak: Technically, Plant wins the game immediately upon stealing Tick-Tock's power, because he has no tokens on his alien sheet.
Tick-Tock's victory condition depends on running out of counters on "this" (i.e. Tick-Tock's) alien sheet, not "your" or "the player's" alien sheet. So, the way I read it, if Plant steals Tick-Tock's power, tokens are still removed from "this" (Tick-Tock's) sheet, and Tick-Tock's sheet would be the one consulted to check for victory condition. Thus, with this interpretation, Plant could still win with Tick-Tock's power, but it would depend on stealing the power and then arranging for the last token to be removed during that encounter. I don't know if that is the original intent of the rules-writers, but it works better than the "leak" interpretation.


I think Plant needs a green note saying that any references to "this sheet" on the stolen power instead refer to the alien from whom he stole the power.

This is relevant when grafting Miser, The Claw, Warrior, Fury, Cryo, Industrialist... maybe some others I'm missing. Allowing Plant to graft some of these powers may make them a bit nerfed (if the Plant can just ninja the Cryo's cold storage or spend all of Fury's tokens) but the alternative seems unfair to Plant and also creates a book-keeping nightmare as the Plant may end up with several piles of cards or tokens corresponding to different aliens he has grafted at one time.

Reincarnator has the same challenge in utilizing powers that require some "buildup," but at least he only has to manage one set of resources at a time, can actually use them for a while if he gets his flare, and has a deep pool of alien powers to access (whereas the Plant is just out of luck if he only gets colonies on opponents with "buildup" powers).


Maybe it's okay to rule against Plant though... His Super flare is pretty ridiculous
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Cameron McKenzie
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xagyg wrote:
I see the Cosmodex has a revised version of Macron, but why not only have one "use", as follows ...

Quote:
:Macron: Each Ship is Worth 4 (G) You have the power of Mass. As the offense or an ally, you may only send one ship into the encounter. As a main player or ally, use this power after encounter cards are revealed. Each of your ships counts as 4 toward your side's total instead of 1.


Can't you stipulate as a rule that you can only send 1 ship to an encounter, and then leave the USE for the reveal stage? I think I'm missing something.


The wording on Macron's sheet allows for his power to be zapped during the Launch or Alliance phase. If his power is zapped at that time, Macron can send more than one ship into the encounter (because the 1 ship restriction is a result of using the power).

If the 1 ship limitation were printed as an absolute rule for Macron, he would not be able to send more than 1 ship even if he were zapped. Although, that's a moot point because he wouldn't actually be zappable until the Reveal phase.
 
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Just a Bill
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harmonicaman79 wrote:
Maybe you can get cozy with FF sometime and get paid for it!

Highly unlikely. We are two expansions behind on FAQs, and the 2nd printing of the game includes only a paltry handful of errata (which aren't even fully correct) ... so it seems pretty clear that FFG is not capable of and/or not interested in rules support at anything other than the most cursory level.

MasterDinadan wrote:
I think Plant needs a green note saying that any references to "this sheet" on the stolen power instead refer to the alien from whom he stole the power.

I didn't do that because I didn't want green notes sprawling out of control on Plant, Reincarnator, Wild Plant, Wild Reincarnator, Wild Philanthropist, Wild Sorcerer .... For these situations we need one or two clearly stated general rules.

The problem is, nobody can really figure out what they should be exactly, since there are pros and cons in the various situations, and the more powers get printed the harder it gets. This is one of those areas that FFG absolutely should have defined up front so they could write the texts accordingly. Now it's really too late for any kind of clean solution, which is probably why FFG continues to ignore it.

MasterDinadan wrote:
Allowing Plant to graft some of these powers may make them a bit nerfed (if the Plant can just ninja the Cryo's cold storage or spend all of Fury's tokens) but the alternative seems unfair to Plant

But powers like the ones you mentioned aren't just "a bit nerfed", they are hosed big-time; Plant essentially sends them back to the start square. Macron is also royally screwed: on offense, he has a paltry ship total of 1 vs. Plant's 16.

Personally, I don't really care what's "unfair" to Plant. It's one of the most poorly defined powers in the game as well as one of the most mercurial, and I'd rather errata the darned thing into uselessness than screw over other aliens that otherwise work just fine until this mess of a power comes along. I know a lot of people like it, and that's cool, but I find it difficult to respect design trainwrecks like this; I'd always rather have some other alien that is actually understandable to the average player. The stuff that's too tricky for FFG to define properly could just be left to the veterans to homebrew for themselves and everyone else who wants it.

MasterDinadan wrote:
Maybe it's okay to rule against Plant though... His Super flare is pretty ridiculous

The whole power is ridiculous, since everyone has to define for themselves what it actually does.
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Michael Marvosh
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MasterDinadan wrote:
xagyg wrote:
I see the Cosmodex has a revised version of Macron, but why not only have one "use", as follows ...

Quote:
:Macron: Each Ship is Worth 4 (G) You have the power of Mass. As the offense or an ally, you may only send one ship into the encounter. As a main player or ally, use this power after encounter cards are revealed. Each of your ships counts as 4 toward your side's total instead of 1.


Can't you stipulate as a rule that you can only send 1 ship to an encounter, and then leave the USE for the reveal stage? I think I'm missing something.


The wording on Macron's sheet allows for his power to be zapped during the Launch or Alliance phase. If his power is zapped at that time, Macron can send more than one ship into the encounter (because the 1 ship restriction is a result of using the power).

If the 1 ship limitation were printed as an absolute rule for Macron, he would not be able to send more than 1 ship even if he were zapped. Although, that's a moot point because he wouldn't actually be zappable until the Reveal phase.


Here's the thing I never understood about Macron. Isn't it always better to zap him during the reveal phase? Why not take out the launch phase use clause since it's stupid anyway?
 
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Just a Bill
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Drinkdrawers wrote:
Here's the thing I never understood about Macron. Isn't it always better to zap him during the reveal phase? Why not take out the launch phase use clause since it's stupid anyway?

Macron may want to zap himself in the launch or alliance phase so he can put four ships into the gate, either to get more compensation/rewards than normal, or because he suspects somebody else is later going to zap him, steal his power, etc. Or maybe he's perpetrating a ruse to make the opponent think he's going to play a negotiate.
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Greg Filpus
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Spotted a minor bug in the reverse cone entry:

Quote:
The "hazard" indicators on FFG's destiny cards (which are currently unused) make it quite simple to introduce a similar reverse-reward mechanic.
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GregF wrote:
Spotted a minor bug in the reverse cone entry:

Quote:
The "hazard" indicators on FFG's destiny cards (which are currently unused) make it quite simple to introduce a similar reverse-reward mechanic.

Good catch. I actually needed to revise a couple of entries to acknowledge the new hazard card ... thanks for the heads-up.
 
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How does this thread not have a billion thumbs? It's got to be the most detailed FAQ-type entry anywhere on BGG. Truly a CE-player's bible.
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DrBrewhaha wrote:
How does this thread not have a billion thumbs? It's got to be the most detailed FAQ-type entry anywhere on BGG. Truly a CE-player's bible.


Out of all the games I own (not enough to be overwhelming, and not so few as to be repetitive) CE is the one game I have only managed to get on the table once for a real game. (As opposed to a teaching game.) Partially from people not liking it, or having over-played the earlier editions, and partially from people not wanting to learn it (for some reason.) I've tried a number of times. Even when no one can think of a game to play and I'm sitting there going "I have CE, I have CE," still no one bites. I don't get it. This is probably one of my favorite games of all time, and I can never play it. Ever.
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Andy Leber
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iidhaegn wrote:
DrBrewhaha wrote:
How does this thread not have a billion thumbs? It's got to be the most detailed FAQ-type entry anywhere on BGG. Truly a CE-player's bible.


Out of all the games I own (not enough to be overwhelming, and not so few as to be repetitive) CE is the one game I have only managed to get on the table once for a real game. (As opposed to a teaching game.) Partially from people not liking it, or having over-played the earlier editions, and partially from people not wanting to learn it (for some reason.) I've tried a number of times. Even when no one can think of a game to play and I'm sitting there going "I have CE, I have CE," still no one bites. I don't get it. This is probably one of my favorite games of all time, and I can never play it. Ever.


I feel your pain. My group likes it, but probably not as much as me. And I have a hard enough time trying to get a game together regularly period, never mind for one game in particular. It's very hard to get a good rotation in of all the games I own.

I'm married, and have a newborn, and am still the one trying to get everyone together.... it's frustrating. My group absolutely loves games when they play them, but it's obviously not important enough to them. I wish I had a group of people more dedicated to playing.
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Michael Marvosh
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iidhaegn wrote:
...I have only managed to get on the table once for a real game...

...This is probably one of my favorite games of all time, and I can never play it. Ever...


Except for that one time.


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iidhaegnThis is probably one of my favorite games of all time, and I can never play it. Ever.
[/q wrote:

[q="Holmes108"]I feel your pain. My group likes it, but probably not as much as me.

I'm hoping the Vassal module can help here, for those of us who don't get to play nearly as often as we would like. I'm moving it forward as fast as I can.
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Bill Martinson wrote:

• Loser Flare — Deleted, since I am rescinding the icon change.


I can't find any thread where you talk about this. Why are you rescinding the icon change? (I presume you mean changing it from Reveal to Planning)
 
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clawster wrote:
Quote:
• Loser Flare — Deleted, since I am rescinding the icon change.
I can't find any thread where you talk about this. Why are you rescinding the icon change? (I presume you mean changing it from Reveal to Planning)

Here's the long, boring story on that (I thought I had posted this, but I can't find it on the geek ... so maybe I wrote it and then decided nobody would care and just forgot about it):


One of the most common and consistently used wording conventions is "after encounter cards are selected but before they are revealed", and it’s almost always accompanied by a Planning-phase icon.

When I first published the Cosmodex, Super Loser (with its Reveal icon) was the only exception among all 70 aliens/flares. It seemed like just another error in the context of all the other errors in this edition, so I changed the icon to Planning in my own play set and in the published entry for Loser.

Then out came Cosmic Conflict, and another exception: Super Prophet (also Reveal). Again, I changed it to Planning because of the well-established precedent.

From time to time I would always go back to these and wonder, did they really have some reason to make it Reveal? The end of Planning and the start of Reveal are adjacent, so it probably doesn’t matter, but having it in Reveal does potentially benefit the effect ever so slightly by requiring other effects with similar timing to all go first before knowing if this one is being used. It doesn’t seem like it would matter or even come up often enough to explain the two exceptions, but maybe I’m missing something?

Sometimes, I would ponder whether there was any clue in the odd redundancy of the texts. If the icon is Planning, then "after encounter cards are selected" is 100% sufficient and you don’t need "before they are revealed". Similarly, if the icon is Reveal, then you don’t need "after they are selected" and can simply write "before encounter cards are revealed". You don’t generally see them writing other weird phase-crossing redundancies, so this wording convention has always been rather puzzling; perhaps it’s just a holdover from Eon language, in which the bracketing was necessary because there were no phases.

Anyway, later I discovered that Wild Gambler is Reveal phase and uses only one of the two prepositional phrases in its wording template: simply "before cards are revealed". So at that point, in my quest for consistency, I had two choices:

1. Convert Wild Gambler to Planning as well, and flesh out its text.

2. Revert the other two back to Reveal as printed, and possibly shorten their wording to match Wild Gambler’s.

I went with #2 because (a) it dials down two instances of "icon errors" to just wording consistency tweaks, (b) it interprets the cards literally, as printed, (c) it resolves all three effects in the direction that is most favorable to the card-holder, and (d) with Wild Gambler in the mix, that particular consistency goal is seeming increasingly subjective on my part.

(For the sake of completeness, the only other effect I am aware of with any bearing on this end-of-one-phase-or-start-of-the-next issue would be Seeker, which says “after alliances are formed but before encounter cards are selected” and has both Alliance and Planning icons. It’s bugging me that I can’t figure out why they went to extra trouble to let this effect fire in two different segments that are right next to each other and both so tiny.)

Anyway, in hindsight, my earlier revisions were too aggressive because the inconsistency doesn't really hurt or break those effects; it just means they have to come after most other "before revealed" effects. Whether it was an intentional design difference or just a consistency failure, I don't really want to call something an actual error if it isn't clearly problematic or contrary to the design intent.
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Bill Martinson wrote:

Here's the long, boring story on that.....


Wow, yeah. I definitely would have assumed the phase was a typo, and played the effects during planning... but after reading all of that, I think your ultimate decision was probably best.

I guess the main, tangible difference is that they would never be subject to timing rules with other effects that happen "after selected, before revealed" if those other effects go off duruing planning... They would have clear priority over the similarly worded effects of the reveal phase.
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