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Subject: Solving the “random/useless Geeklist” problem rss

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jefF, There are some who call me... DuneKitteh
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#2 in my series of “controversial” BGG solutions.

So far I haven’t really liked any of the suggestions that have come across for solving the “useless Geeklist” problem. Ratings suck (have we learned nothing from the picture ratings game people?), the not cross-referencing check isn’t necessarily going to help with the rogue Geeklist problem (though I do like it as a feature), and what’s the use of creating a "temporary" list that has a half life of one day?

So, what to do...

How about public Geeklists cost 1 GeekGold (or maybe more) to make? (private ones would still be free) Things like this should really be kinda sorts of a “privilege” to do, not for every shmo that registers an account and sees the tool to use as a “hey, look at me and see what I’m buying” attention grabbing tool. Having users drop a GG to make a list would keep most of the brand newbie goofballs, or people that don't contribute otherwise, from making a dozen repetitive and virtually useless Geeklists - or at least hopefully getting them to look into whether it has been done before they spend the gold to do it. If they can't get the gold or don’t have it and they think the list has merit, they can try to appeal for a Geekgold donation from a "sponsor" (a user that has a buildup of Geekgold) and try to sell them on the merits of the Geeklist they want to do (and hopefully, a user that has built up that much gold has enough gumption to check for the merits of the list before throwing the GG at the effort).

It’s not perfect, but it might keep some of the willy nilly Geeklisters from just making a list every time the wind changes direction.
 
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Corey Butler
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I think I like this idea. The downside is that it gets away from the free and egalitarian spirit that charaterizes the Geek, but there is going to have to be some structure at some point. This seems like a reasonable suggestion.
 
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Paul - the
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I like the idea as well.
 
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The Steak Fairy
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Games? People still play games??
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I fully support the idea
So long as the cost of crap journal articles like this one is at least 3 geek gold.
 
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Tim Thorp
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Don"t like
I don't like the idea. It assumes that only people with geekgold have something to say. That means, either way, I'm screwed.laugh
 
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(ron lee)
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I like it!
 
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Play Games - Interact - Have Fun!
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No.
Paying for Geeklists? I don't like that. Here is my suggestion.

Make TWO Geeklist updates on the main page. The first is exactly as it is. Geeklists come and go according to how many get posted after yours. The second list will be based on how many recent viewings a geeklist has received or perhaps the most active geeklists. Either way it has to be something that in effect is "rating" a geeklist but not actually assigning a value to it. most Geeklists get viewed at least once, but if it's a good one, then you'll go back to it repeatedly as you check in for the latest comments. In a sense, that Geeklist has been "rated" higher than others by the number of views to see it.

If the number of viewings doesn't appeal to you, then sort by the most active (total number of new comments in a certain time period). Both of these methods allow geeks to silently "vote" for the Geeklists that they want to see.

Another thought would be to have older (and very popular) Geeklists get thrown up on the 2nd list by some random (or not so random?) method so new users (as well as the rest of us) can see some of those that have been buried under the deluge of new lists. 5 or 10 of these old lists along with the most current or most active would be great.

Move the News to the Journals ("pin" them) to make room and extend the number of Journal entries.
 
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Alan Kaiser
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Nice Solution
I like this one as well. Maybe give everyone a few GG to keep things a little more open and inviting. That'll get everyone past the first few 'What should I buy' lists. Once they get a few games then they are in a position to add some content to the site and earn more gold. Great idea.
 
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(ron lee)
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and it's not like people without geekgold can't contribute to an already-made geeklist, or start up their own journals. they can blabber about whatever in both places. not stifling free speech, just directing it to the proper location.
 
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David K
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Someone, somewhere, will consider any GeekList as useless. I think the system works fine as is. You can, generally, tell from the title if it's going to be "useless", or not. Just don't read the ones you deem "useless". Problem solved. I would also posit that new users of BGG would find almost any geeklist as useful.

-V
 
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CHAPEL
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Forget It

Don't like it. This is a freeform of ideas, not to be run by the whims of people who actually go for geek gold. The only "priviledge" you have with geek gold is an avatar, period. Just because you've earned geek gold, doesn't mean what you have to say is anymore important. Luckily this idea will never fly anyway. Someone gets a little GG in thier pocket and thinks they can start making changes, whatever.
 
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Dane Peacock
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I don't like it. It makes the Geek too exclusive.
 
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J. Green
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ANOTHER SOLUTION
Why not just let BGG users vote for the Geeklists they like?
Add a 'Vote to keep this List current' tag in the code, and everyone who thinks the list is worth keeping around, vote for it. Then the best/most useful lists will be recognized and kept around, and the ones that are simply vanity/requests/whatever would drop off the page fairly soon.
The vote categories could be a) keep indefinitely b) keep for a week and c) keep 24 hours... or something.
You could also make the length of time you've been a BGG member qualify you to vote, so new users would have to be around a while and become familiar with what's already out there before qualifying to decide what's worthy of keeping.
It also wouldn't take much to include such a vote feature on each new list.
This would make it not worth your time to do a list that doesn't have some value or interest to a wide number of people.
 
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jefF, There are some who call me... DuneKitteh
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MisterCranky:
As long as people like MisterCranky have to pay 5GG to make crap a** rude as all hell feel-free-to-shove-your-opinion-up-your-own-a**-I'll-read-your-entries-if-I-gave-a-rat's-a**-about-your-opinon comments to me, I'll consider it fake-money well spent too!

berserkley:
That would be where the "get a sponsor" part would come in. I'd sponsor any GL I felt was worthy.

MWChapel:
So, I guess “freeform” of ideas also means that my “throw spitballs at random cards taped to my wall with game names on them until 10 stick” and turn it into a geeklist has merit too, huh? Random game geeklists are not a freeform exchange, they are the very definition of anarchy, my misguided friend.

It is a SUGGESTION, sparky... one that is based on the simple merit system of people that actually contribute something substantial – things substantial enough for the site admins to offer the inter-site reward for BTW – to the site getting a simple reward for doing so. You seem to completely gloss over that fact though and miss the point with your simple and laughable “you just feel self important” accusation – me thinks that someone else here needs to get over their own self importance because you seem to feel that you can look at my GG count and accuse me of something less than honorable in a suggestion - how unbelievably rude and obnoxious and assuming can you possibly get? It’s not about the importance of any given member, it’s about simply “earning your wings” here and becoming well respected contributing member first, rather than looking like a fool posting an “attention whoring, look at me everyone” random geeklist simply because you can. But, you said your piece, and you got off on your own self importance doing so, I’m sure – my advice though is to drop out of the MisterCranky school of Etiquette for making comments – because I, for one, am glad that neither of you are in charge here either after your rude ass comments to me.

(btw too, to point out your simple error in your comment you can also buy the “privilege” of a geekbadge with geekgold too, so it’s not even the “only” thing you can do with GG – maybe you need to concentrate on getting it all right before you start weighing the worth of something and coming off all cocky yourself)

Sky Knight X:
Thank you for being simple and to the point about your vote against without being rude like MisterCranky and MWChapel felt they had to be. It is appreciated and I respect and weigh your opinion 100x more because of your ability to simply be polite. Take a lesson MisterCranky and MWChapel.
 
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Alan Faller
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I don't agree with this at all.

I would like to feel I am creative in my list creation - I haven't done many so far but they have all been a bit different and unusual - the last one spawned a load of copycat lists on a similar theme which I was quite flattered by. I post these lists partly because they are free - as in speech.

Personally I hate the "Games I own / bought at Essen / want for Christmas" style lists - they tell us nothing new and I think they are a waste of space.

I still would not want to stop these lists from being published though, they have as much right to exist as mine do and someone somewhere will find it useful. Stopping such lists requires a judgement of their merits and value, and who can really make that call. The alternative is group censorship which is what limiting access based on popularity really ammounts to. I don't think we really want to start down that road.

If the list isn't interesting hit the back button, choose something different and relax.
 
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Chester
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Assumptions
The idea in the original journal entry makes one big assumption....and I'm not sure there is any evidence this is a true assumption. The 'low caliber' Geeklists are primarily form users with no Geekgold. Is that really true?

I wish the Geeklists on the front page were 'bumpable' so that any list that has had a recent revision/addition/comment added would bump to the top. This way, worthwhile lists will naturally sort themselves closer to the front...or stay on the front page. Worthless lists will drip quickly off the front page without any misperceived pressure being applied to the situation or any exclusivity about who 'deserves' to create one.

I am not in favor of charging Geekgold to create a list...but its because I don't think this will do anything to encourage better quality Geeklists.

I'm not sure of a good way to address the issue of diluting a specific game's 'relevant geeklists'. But I don't use that particular feature too terribly much, so I don't mind terribly either.

Why not just let market forces (or activity....not just views) determine which lists are on the front page and which are not?
 
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Joseph Cardarelli
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I think its fine just the way it is. So you dont like random and pointless geeklists huh? Here's a solution: Dont read them. I like to read useless geeklists, and I think people like the fact that they can express their opinions to people they THINK cares about them. We should stick together in our community, not alienate those who stop in occasionally.
 
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Steven Winsor
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No way. I have two geekgolf from writing two session reports. It's going to take me forever to get an avatar. Do you have to regularly play and document board game sessions, or get rare games and add the pictures of them, to be able to use one of the essential features of the Geek? That's way too elitist.
 
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I love this guy!
MisterCranky:
So long as the cost of crap journal articles like this one is at least 3 geek gold.

He just seems to always find the exact right words for any occasion.
 
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Kane Klenko
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The only idea I've liked so far is having 2 Geeklist lists. One like it is now and one with the most active lists. It's a way to keep interesting conversations on the front page instead of having them bumped off by new lists.

I do not think you should have to pay to make a Geeklist. If it was that way when I started coming here, I don't know how long I would have stayed, or at least would have spent less time here. I like that BGG is turning into a community of gamers instead of just a place to find new games.

Lists that other people find annoying (what should I buy next?...) others may find interesting. I actually like helping people figure out which games would suite them well. Just because some people don't like them, doesn't make them worthless lists.
 
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Rich K
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Having another "most active" list of geek lists
is a way cool idea.
 
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Richard Smith
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Lists based on activity
A rather like the idea of lists that are getting a lot of posts / activity bumping back up to the front. Hopefully the admin's will put in an override to deep six a list run amok!

Regards, Rick
 
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Joe Huber

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Geeklists that have not been added to, commented on, or viewed for more than 3 months should be automatically deleted. They're obviously not useful. This would not apply to private lists.

Actually, there seems to be a bug with "private" geeklists, wherein they can be found if looking at the lists for a particular user - and if found and commented on, they become visible. (I used to mark lists as private when they were under construction, until recently discovering this issue.)

While I will go through lists I've written to cull them, I've certainly written some that haven't been added to or commented on for 3+ months that I'd prefer not be deleted.

Putting a cost on creating lists would certainly have the effect of preventing me from writing any here; whether or not that would be an improvement I'll leave to y'all.
 
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(ron lee)
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the reason the system does NOT work as it is is this: imagine if you're a newbie and you want to find out more about the game Puerto Rico, and you come across this mess:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/3076

Now imagine what happens a year from now, when every single game has a page that looks like this. Now imagine two years from now.

 
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jefF, There are some who call me... DuneKitteh
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Reedo:
For the record Geeklists don’t “disappear” – and there are hundreds of examples of that little fact of them NOT disappearing on the Puerto Rico game page alone. Just because they are out of sight on the front page does not mean that the hundreds of useless pointless non-cohesive Geeklists referencing them aren’t a total 100% mess in the system. Sorry, they have FAR from “disappeared” my misguided friend.

And you know what astoundingly amazes me? That so many of you complete and utter idiots just can't take the post for the suggestion that it IS, and simply debate its merit without personally insulting me in the process and generically accusing me of being elitist, or exclusionary, or any of that (a post is forthcoming from me explaining exactly why it IS NOT)... and it sure as all HELL is my “right” as a user here to make a suggestion for a system that I believe will help to limit the utterly pointless dreck and improve the quality of the site – but, unless I have been made a site admin in the last 15 minutes and don’t know about it, this post has absolutely NO bearing on “deciding” anything, so stop inferring that it somehow does and getting your panties in a ruffle here by screaming “ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE IDEA!” at me. Hey, want to improve the site yourself, then why don’t you get over your accusatory self first already and don’t throw “you’re an elitist, you have no right, blah-blah, let us all cry-cry for the little Geekgold poor children” insults out at your fellow users for simply making a suggestion – and in the future, if you are totally incapable of making a comment or debating without being totally rude and assuming about the reasoning behind it, then you have my personal invitation to go post get off my Geekjournal and go write about it elsewhere - if I want YOUR assuming opinion, I’ll go read it (and assume and insult you) on YOUR Geekjournal.
 
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