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Subject: A Game of Thrones x Warrior Knights rss

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Thales Martins
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Hi guys,

I know that this is a really easy choice for most of you, but the thing is, I would like the game that suits better with my friends...
So those are the important things:

They don't like difficulty games, where you have to always stop to check the rules.

They don't like too long games (3 hrs max).

They enjoy battles, even if they can win easier doing something else, they prefer to attack the other player (not all of my friends, but the majoraty).

They really don't like witchs, wizards, magic and fantasy in games.


Also, I would like to understand a little better how the games work.
Poll
Wich one do you think suits my friends needs better?
Warrior Knights
A Game of Thrones (First Edition)
      34 answers
Poll created by thalescnm

Thanks guys!!

 
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Micah Fuller
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I actually haven't played Warrior Knights, but it looks to be a bit longer than aGoT. Some games of aGoT will already be approaching your 3 hour limit I'm sure.
The rules may be complicated at first, but after a few plays it is pretty straightforward.
Also, plenty of oportunity to attack other players
 
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John Lopez
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No contest, simply because of length of the game. A Game of Thrones wraps up in under three hours and has conflict on turn two forward.

Both are Fantasy Flight games, but AGoT's rules are more intuitive to me. The use of order tokens and physical totems for the various track effects makes the game rules more concrete as you have things to handle that remind you of the rules.

The only caveat: I won't play AGoT without the ports from the first expansion. Everything else is truly optional, but ports open the sea portion of the game up in a good way.

Warrior Knights can wrap up fairly quickly as well, but I find it less satisfying not playing to a higher point total (which in turn raises the play time). I would also suggest the expansion for WK as well (if you were to choose to play it). In this case there is little I would leave out as the new cards and units open up the game to be far more bloody.


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Thales Martins
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Artful Nudger wrote:
I actually haven't played Warrior Knights, but it looks to be a bit longer than aGoT. Some games of aGoT will already be approaching your 3 hour limit I'm sure.
The rules may be complicated at first, but after a few plays it is pretty straightforward.
Also, plenty of oportunity to attack other players


Bu aGoT, is also a wargame, or it is mostly political?
 
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Richard Linnell
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whistleMan, I came in here thinking that I would learn what you get when you multiply AGoT by Warrior Knights. My guesstimate was that the product would be awesome, but I haven't done long multiplication in a while...
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thalescnm wrote:
Bu aGoT, is also a wargame, or it is mostly political?


Well, neither of them are a wargame in the ASL "hexes and chits" viewpoint.

Thrones has diplomacy in that you often negotiate with other players, but we're not talkind Diplomacy here. If you like abstract conflict resolution, rather than buckets-o-dice, I think Thrones is a good choice!
 
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Thales Martins
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Sam and Max wrote:
thalescnm wrote:
Bu aGoT, is also a wargame, or it is mostly political?


Well, neither of them are a wargame in the ASL "hexes and chits" viewpoint.

Thrones has diplomacy in that you often negotiate with other players, but we're not talkind Diplomacy here. If you like abstract conflict resolution, rather than buckets-o-dice, I think Thrones is a good choice!


But aGoT has battles?

Like,Risk doesn`t have hexes and Counters neither, but it a wargame..
 
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Mark Christopher
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thalescnm wrote:
Sam and Max wrote:
thalescnm wrote:
Bu aGoT, is also a wargame, or it is mostly political?


Well, neither of them are a wargame in the ASL "hexes and chits" viewpoint.

Thrones has diplomacy in that you often negotiate with other players, but we're not talkind Diplomacy here. If you like abstract conflict resolution, rather than buckets-o-dice, I think Thrones is a good choice!


But aGoT has battles?

Like,Risk doesn`t have hexes and Counters neither, but it a wargame..


Victory in aGoT is taking the most cities and strongholds, and the only way to do that is through battle. So essentially yes, it's a wargame. One with shifting alliances, but still primarily war.
 
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Thales Martins
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The votes and comentaries pretty much close the deal, I am going with aGoT...

Thanks guys!!!
 
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John Culp
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you should really take a look at this thread.
http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=712...


I'm a huge warrior knights fan, but i can't say anything about the differences really. I am recieving AGOT in a trade. one thing is, read up on the combat in AGOT, and see if it sounds like it will work. its very determinisitic, especially copmared to "risk" and its ilk.
 
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Sean Shaw
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I voted Warrior Knights, as you stated they REALLY DON'T LIKE...basically fantasy...which is what a Game of Thrones is. Game of Thrones doesn't really have battles, so much as playing the game of War (the Card game) with others if you even choose to have battles, which you don't. The battles in Warrior knights feel more like battles...but not as much as many of the simpler straight forward games with war as a theme. Warrior Knights is fiddely though, so they wouldn't like it either.

I'd say skip both as from the sounds of it you need better choices that fit your criteria.
 
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GreyLord wrote:
I voted Warrior Knights, as you stated they REALLY DON'T LIKE...basically fantasy...which is what a Game of Thrones is. Game of Thrones doesn't really have battles, so much as playing the game of War (the Card game) with others if you even choose to have battles, which you don't. The battles in Warrior knights feel more like battles...but not as much as many of the simpler straight forward games with war as a theme. Warrior Knights is fiddely though, so they wouldn't like it either.

I'd say skip both as from the sounds of it you need better choices that fit your criteria.


Do you have any suggestion??
 
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David Sleaze
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War on Terror from Terror Bull Games: No Fantasy at all, plays in 2-3h, easy rules an it´s very agressive.
 
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Thales Martins
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GreyLord wrote:
I voted Warrior Knights, as you stated they REALLY DON'T LIKE...basically fantasy...which is what a Game of Thrones is. Game of Thrones doesn't really have battles, so much as playing the game of War (the Card game) with others if you even choose to have battles, which you don't. The battles in Warrior knights feel more like battles...but not as much as many of the simpler straight forward games with war as a theme. Warrior Knights is fiddely though, so they wouldn't like it either.

I'd say skip both as from the sounds of it you need better choices that fit your criteria.


But aGoT have magic, wizards, fantasy etc??
Because from what I saw in the pictures, it didn't look like....
 
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David Sleaze
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No wizards, Dragons or elfes appear in this game,
From what i hear the books have magic but it´s rare.
 
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I own both but wouldn't recommend either based on your criteria. Battles are abstracted in both.

What about?

Viktory II
Heroscape
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Jonathan Fried
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Sounds to me like you want Nexus Ops or Dust
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Jonathan Challis
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Sam and Max wrote:

Thrones has diplomacy in that you often negotiate with other players, but we're not talkind Diplomacy here.


Actually AGoT is often opined to be a modern Diplomacy, albeit with a fantasy setting. A viewpoint I can see, even though I hate Diplomacy and love AGoT ironically...

I love both these games, but I think they are both wrong for you and your group. these are both in my favourite dozen or so games ever, so I'm not knocking them, but they seem to be the antithesis of your criteria.

Warrior Knights is way over your time limit, combat is a little simple, and the general rules perhaps too complicated for you, and AGoT borders that time limit, combat is much too abstract for them, and it probably borders their rules threshold, and has strong fantasy elements.

Both great games, but I think wrong choices for you.

Given likes you've expressed elssewhere (particularly Risk), I'd suggest something like Ikusa, Conquest of the Empire or Galactic Emperor. The first two border your 3 hour limit too (Samurai esp may run over), but they seem very much the kind of games you like - Riskesque, but with more to them. I've not played Dust but that would also probably be a good choice.
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John Lopez
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Having played AGoT just a few weekends ago I'm not getting the "strong fantasy" comments. Yeah, it is *set* in a fantasy world with magic and monsters, but the focus of even the books is human conflicts that feel more middle ages intrigue than Lord of the Rings.

If you don't mention the fantasy aspects I bet they wouldn't even notice them in the game proper. No spells, no monstrous units and no non-human player empires.
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Godeke wrote:
Having played AGoT just a few weekends ago I'm not getting the "strong fantasy" comments. Yeah, it is *set* in a fantasy world with magic and monsters, but the focus of even the books is human conflicts that feel more middle ages intrigue than Lord of the Rings.

If you don't mention the fantasy aspects I bet they wouldn't even notice them in the game proper. No spells, no monstrous units and no non-human player empires.


My friends don't mind that it is in a fantasy world, but if it has cards or options, of magic, spells, monsters, witchs, wizards etc...they wouldn't like it very much.

I know that the books have some, but I didn't quite understand yet if the boardgame has as well...

Thanks!!
 
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Mike Thompson
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Absolutely nothing about AGOT, the boardgame, is fantasy (other than a fictional setting). Those who are saying it is fantasy are basing their opinions on the books.

 
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Jonathan Challis
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It is Fantasy, but it's subtly done. If you've read the books or played the CCG then you'll see fantasy references everywhere. If you don't know the world, and are just coming to the boardgame fresh then you would probably think it no more fantasy than Warrior Knights (ie: both are in a made-up medieval setting).

Just as all the combat is abstracted, so too are many elements the Others (Ringwraiths) are just part of the Wildling Attack cards, and not referenced directly. The Dragons don't appear in the boardgame etc.

My issue however is that it seems a really bad fit fro your criteria and preferences. Warrior Knights is a worse fit, but this also doesn't seem to be the game you are looking for, much as I love it.
 
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Sean Shaw
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This

Jonbone wrote:
Sounds to me like you want Nexus Ops or Dust


or this

Kelanen wrote:
Sam and Max wrote:

Thrones has diplomacy in that you often negotiate with other players, but we're not talkind Diplomacy here.


Actually AGoT is often opined to be a modern Diplomacy, albeit with a fantasy setting. A viewpoint I can see, even though I hate Diplomacy and love AGoT ironically...

I love both these games, but I think they are both wrong for you and your group. these are both in my favourite dozen or so games ever, so I'm not knocking them, but they seem to be the antithesis of your criteria.

Warrior Knights is way over your time limit, combat is a little simple, and the general rules perhaps too complicated for you, and AGoT borders that time limit, combat is much too abstract for them, and it probably borders their rules threshold, and has strong fantasy elements.

Both great games, but I think wrong choices for you.

Given likes you've expressed elssewhere (particularly Risk), I'd suggest something like Ikusa, Conquest of the Empire or Galactic Emperor. The first two border your 3 hour limit too (Samurai esp may run over), but they seem very much the kind of games you like - Riskesque, but with more to them. I've not played Dust but that would also probably be a good choice.


particularly Galactic Emperor from the second post, sound more up your alley from how you describe your friends, though if they don't like fantasy, they may not like Sci Fi either. I'd be leaning more towards the Nexus Ops or especially Dust though.

One of my personal favorites though is Conquest of the Empire, it can get a little long occasionally though.
 
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IamSalvation wrote:
War on Terror from Terror Bull Games: No Fantasy at all, plays in 2-3h, easy rules an it´s very agressive.


What about this Game?
It seems like a perfect fit for you!
It has not such a high rank as it´s from a small publisher, but it would be so perfect for you.

There is no Fiction in there, just a Map of the real world (with some funny borders & name changes )
It reminds of Risk but has a lot more to it.
It´s kind of Card-Driven which is a cool concept.
It brings in some elements known from Settlers (Lands have numbers, player roll the "Oil Dice" and every player with that number gets money)
It´s fun, fast and full of humor.

Your only Problem could be with the Theme which involves Terrorists...
 
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A Game of Thrones is no fantasy setting as you may know it. You might call it "low fantasy" as it is more of a mediaval setting which might be compared to the Camelot stories and Conan where there is magic but only very few wizards.

I don't want to spoil the story of AGoT (read the books, really the best I have every read) so I can say this:
- the players only control Infantry, Knights and Ships
- there is an unknown force in the north that has no units but may affect the game due to events
- there are no dragons in this game
 
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