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Diplomacy» Forums » General

Subject: Help identifying... Games Research vs. Intellectual Diversions... rss

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Charles Picard
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Hey Gang, I recently added some images for this version and even created a Version for it (which can be edited, of course)...



It looks like Gibson's, but it's not... there's no mention of Gibson's, however, it does say clearly on the side of the box -- Games Research Inc. copyright 1961.

The rules, on the other hand, say Intellectual Diversions, copyright 1962.



The game board (in writing too small to see in the images) says Intellectual Diversions, copyright 1963, made in Great Britain.

In some subsequent research, I've seen at least a claim that Intellectual Diversions was the first company to sell Diplomacy outside the US (in 1963). But then I come back to the purple outer box that says Games Research 1961 very clearly on it.

I know there are several Diplomacy experts about, and would love to hear there opinions, etc., and suggestion on changes that should be made in identifying the full set.

Thanks!
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Charles Picard
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As a follow-up, I've taken the step of putting in to add Intellectual Diversions as a boardgame publisher here in the BGG dB.
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Seth Owen
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No part of it looks like the Games Research edition published in the states. Perhaps there was some confusion on the part of the publisher as to the proper copyright notice to use.
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Walt
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Original_CorPse wrote:
It looks like Gibson's, but it's not... there's no mention of Gibson's, however, it does say clearly on the side of the box -- Games Research Inc. copyright 1961.

The rules, on the other hand, say Intellectual Diversions, copyright 1962.

Completely guessing, 1961 is the copyright for the box art, while 1962 is the copyright for that version of the rules.

Copyright was different then, long before the Berne Convention.
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Randall Bart
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Original_CorPse wrote:


It looks like Gibson's, but it's not... there's no mention of Gibson's, however, it does say clearly on the side of the box -- Games Research Inc. copyright 1961.

Someone was confused, probably Intellectual Diversions. I would guess that in 1962 Intellectual Diversions licensed Diplomacy from Games Research. It appears they did not copy any art from Games Research, nor did they copy the underlying Rand McNally topographic map. They took the territory borders from the Games Research map and had a cartoonist fill it in.

This is obviously the edition later produced by Philmar and still later produced by Gibson. It still looks hideous.
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Randall Bart
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Tall_Walt wrote:
Copyright was different then, long before the Berne Convention.

Before 1886? shake
 
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Walt
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Barticus88 wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Copyright was different then, long before the Berne Convention.

Before 1886? shake

Pardon: I should have said, long before adoption of the Berne Convention by the US (1989).
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Charles Picard
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Barticus88 wrote:

Someone was confused, probably Intellectual Diversions. I would guess that in 1962 Intellectual Diversions licensed Diplomacy from Games Research. It appears they did not copy any art from Games Research, nor did they copy the underlying Rand McNally topographic map. They took the territory borders from the Games Research map and had a cartoonist fill it in.

This is obviously the edition later produced by Philmar and still later produced by Gibson. It still looks hideous.


I'm starting to wonder if the Philmar & Gibson editions are based on this one.

This appears to be the earliest version with the psychedelic color-scheme you like so much!
 
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Stuart Dagger
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I bought my copy of the game in 1973 and it's the Ariel/Philmar edition. It is almost identical to the one in your photograph. Almost, but not quite.

The board is the same except for the fact that the backing for the board in yours is red, while that in mine is black.

The blue cardboard inset and the tray for the pieces are the same, as are the pieces themselves.

The purple box lid is the same and it has the same "copyright 1961 Games Research Inc" on the side and in the same position. You don't show the opposite edge, but on mine it says "From Intellectual Diversions".

However, the layout of the first page of the rules in your photograph is significantly different to that in my set.

The dates and acknowledgements in my set are confusing and give the impression of having been cobbled together from various places. The box lid says 1961, as I have already noted, but the board says "1963 Intellectual Diversions Ltd. Made and printed in Great Britain" and the front cover of the rules says "Copyright 1971, Games Research Inc."

Stuart Dagger
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Eugene van der Pijll
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There's a good (but not up-to-date) overview of Diplomacy editions at http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze4r2c2/Diplomacy/NoFigs/DipEdit... . You will have to retrieve some of the pages from the Internet Archive (www.archive.org).

From the image, this looks like the first Philmar edition: it has a green plastic tray.

Quote:
Philmar, Ltd. licensed the rights to Diplomacy from Games Research after Intellectual Diversions. Interestingly, the early Diplomacy games from Philmar came in Intellectual Diversions boxes (see the description for the 1971 (not 1961) Intellectual Diversions edition for details about the appearance of the box). It is possible that they had a supply of old Intellectual Diversions boxes left to consume, but given that they put out more than one variation with this lid (see several variations below), I think it is more likely that they decided to keep printing the old ones rather than take on the cost of designing a new box for the printing machinery. As you can see, unlike the Intellectual Diversions editions, this edition came with a plastic tray to hold the pieces. The tray came with a clear cover stapled onto it (since lost in the set below, and therefore not shown). The tray cover was just a flat round piece of plastic making it relatively useless once removed.

Despite the fact that this edition has an Intellectual Diversions box, this edition is listed as a Philmar edition because Philmar's name is on the back of the rulebook. Because the lid is marked "From Intellectual Diversions", and has a Games Research copyright, it is particularly hard to identify this as a Philmar edition at first glance. Although Philmar was a licensee of the game, they didn't actually change anything that would revise a copyright and put it in their name. The gameboard was still copyright Intellectual Diversions, and since they were using Games Research's rulebook, the rulebook was still copyright Games Research. Because Philmar didn't identify themselves by name on the box, you have to go out of your way to find the connection to them -- the company's name and address is on the back of the rulebook, where one is not likely to notice it simply by looking through the contents of the box. The same is true of later Philmar variations shown below. I have seen numerous copies of Philmar variations and they are almost never identified as being Philmar editions by the seller. This edition and the next three variations are often incorrectly identified as being Intellectual Diversions editions because that's the name on the box lid.

Can you check the back of the rulebook to see if it mentions Philmar?
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Charles Picard
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pijll wrote:

Can you check the back of the rulebook to see if it mentions Philmar?


I can find no mention of Philmar or their logo in the rulebook.
 
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Charles Picard
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Well, I've gone about as far as I can identifying this strange fish! I've decided to move it along.

If anyone is interested, this copy is now in the Marketplace listed under today's date July 26th, 2010. Traded locally. Thanks!

Thanks for the help and the interesting debate.

cP
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