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Subject: Thoughts on a New Rating System rss

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Scott Alden
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Ok, so there's been some complaints about the new ratings system...

I recently saw this website where it gives "power to the people" http://www.digg.com If something is dug enough times it shoots to the front page. I focuses on the positive instead of the negative.

Do y'all think something like this kind of rating system could be worked into BGG and be useful?

Thoughts? Opinions?

p.s. On a personal note, I have been out of commission for the past couple of days, and might be out some more. I've been feeling pain that is best described as "getting grazed" (guys know what I mean) and have been to the Dr. to get checked out. Still hafta get some more tests (wheee!) and I will keep y'all informed.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Don't like it.

Some of the best things I find on BGG are totally obscure. This seems like it would simply function like the existing 'hot games' list.
 
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E Corcoran
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OT, please ignore
(sorry to interrupt but could someone mail me privately and tell me what "getting grazed" is? I'm a guy but I don't understand.)
 
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Scott Alden
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How about "getting hit below the belt". That might make things clearer. laugh
 
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David Boeren
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Don't Dig It
I agree, it will end up looking like a hotlist, with only well-known and popular items being at the top. Quality older releases that many of the userbase haven't seen will be ignored in such a system.

Frankly, I don't really think there's a problem with the current system outside of a few shills/shillbusters and the hype surrounding brand-new titles. For example, I refuse to believe that War of the Ring is as good as its rating claims that it is. There have been quite a few substantial flaws pointed out already. It's a good game, but it doesn't seem like top 10 material.

I wonder if it would a good idea to have a listing on the front page for the "Hidden Gem of the Day". Randomly select a game with good numerical ratings which has less than 50 ratings on it. Might be a good way for people to learn about the quality minor titles. Not every Trias has a sodaklady or chaddyboy to cheer for it
 
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Scott Alden
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Paul, I was thinking about being able to "dig" any object on the site and it would percolate up to the top. I.e. I dig this image and it will be shown in the image gallery, etc...

You could still get to all the "stuff" but it would take a click or 2 more.
 
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Mark Haberman
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I don't digg...if you dig.
 
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Robert C Kalajian Jr
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I dig
 
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Joe Gola
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Not sure exactly what you mean. Are you talking about the picture ratings? Is the idea that the pictures with the most hits are the ones that will show up on the main page of a game? Or that instead of a number to be selected you just hit the "I dig this picture" button? Both of those seem like good ideas to me. Yes, theoretically some people could hit their own picture a hundred times to get it on the page, but if there are any users that desperate for an ego boost I say let 'em have their fun.

On another note, I guess it's better than feeling like you're getting glazed, as that would probably mean you have Munchkin's syndrome. Say, aren't you a newlwed? That could be your problem right there. Just give it a rest for a couple of days and you'll be good as new.
 
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Phil Shepherd
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Dig. When I'm interested in a particular title, I go thru the thumb browser... Show me what other geeks are diggin' at the moment!
 
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Mike Pranno
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After seeing how it works on the link provided, I would be all for it. It would work exceptionally well for Journals and Geeklists, and marginally so for Games and pictures.
 
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Scott Alden
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How bout this.

The site operates as normal.

plus has the "digging section" which shows you what people are digging at that moment. Maybe digs evaporate after a couple of weeks, so the dig list is fresh all the time.
 
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Richard Smith
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Evaporating Digg list
I think leaving the site as is, but putting in an 'evaporating digg list' would be cool.

Thanks a huge amoung for your work!

Warm regards, Rick
 
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Dane Peacock
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That tickles
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When I was a senior in High School, I woke up with the feeling of getting grazed.

The pain got worse and worse until I could not stand it. Imagine someone grabbing your testicles and twisting, hard, and not letting go.

I started going in and out of consciousness and soon found myself on the floor of the lab and the local clinic. Reiner Bradley (Shawn Bradley of the Dallas Maverick's Dad) helped me with a pain killer injection that knocked me out for the entire day.

The Doctor mis-diagnosed it as bacteria. A day later, I was still having trouble with the pain, and went to another doctor, who quickly rushed me into surgery, saving my...

I had a 'twisted testicle’, which is now called a 'strangulated testicle', which sounds cooler. It is hereditary.

Aldie, you better get that checked...


 
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Iain K
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How bout this.

The site operates as normal.

plus has the "digging section" which shows you what people are digging at that moment. Maybe digs evaporate after a couple of weeks, so the dig list is fresh all the time.


Sounds fantastic to me Aldie.

Hate to confuse gruff anymore then necessary, but here's hoping your luggage gets fixed soon.

& Happy Holidays!
 
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Dane Peacock
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That tickles
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Let me make this very clear, everything is normal now, with no sign of it ever happening!

It was basketball season at the time, and when I got back to practice, my Coach gave the team the speach about taking it easy on my tender area, accompanied by a lot of snickers from my teammates.

Anyway, the first play, I went diving out of bounds for a loose ball, and the other guy got there first, knocking the ball back right into, well, you guessed it.

I layed there in pain while the coach went ballistic on them. It wasn't funny at the time...
 
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Daniel Karp
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I took a look at the digg web site--it does look like it works well there, but there is a catch: all of the items there are essentially news items. I think this dig thing would work well at BGG, but only for items with a natural half-life. Your evaporating dig idea will work well with this. I could see this working well for journal articles and, more importantly, for articles and reviews buried on game pages that wouldn't otherwise show up on the main page. This could be a way of automating the spotlight section, and expanding it to include journal discussions.

What this would not work as well for, I think, are those items that are always equally current--pictures, in particular. For pictures and, to a lesser extent, games, which have less time sensitivity, I think actual ratings are needed to make sense of things. Moreover, the dig thing will work to keep everyone in the loop on the hot items, but it will do nothing for the long-term organization of the geek, I suspect; for that, you still need slashdot-like ratings, preferably with some sort of incentive for people to actually rate items (I suggested micropayments of geekcents, but I'm sure there could be other incentives).

So the short answer is: I love the idea, but not as a replacement of the current system, which I think needs to be expanded, if anything. Still, I've thought for a while that what was really missing was a better way to find out what articles and journals are hot--the active articles section is OK, but this would be MUCH better. Also, this might serve to keep the most active and interesting articles on the front page, which I think would be a very good thing. Something could stay up as long as people keep digging it, and drop off when the digs expire.

Actually, one more idea, probably ain unwieldy one, but I'll throw it out there: since having people both "dig" items and rate them seems a bit unrealistic, perhaps they could be combined. Here is how. Instead of digging something, you rate it. Higher ratings count as more "dig" points. The "dig" values of the rating expires after a little while, but the rating could remain permanently. This gives people incentive to rate items they like. There is still no incentive to rate items you don't like--I suppose you could have low rating be "negative digs", but that defeats the purpose of the digs in the first place. Or you could use a sort of Baynesian average for ratings, so that items which don't get rated often (aren't dug) don't show up with high ratings. Then you don't need incentive for people to rate items they don't like--their silence will be helpful as well. I'm just sort of talking off the top of my head here, but I think something combining digs with ratings might work. It sounds complex, but most of it could happen in the background.
 
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Randy Cox
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I love rating things on the geek. More than we already have. We need near-compulsory ratings for articles, replies, geek lists, comments, pictures. You name it.

So, if this digg thing is for all those entries that aren't rated now (like geek lists, journal entries, responses to same, etc), then I guess that would be a little interesting. But I'd prefer a 0-10 rating scale for everything on the database with people being given the ability to vote once and only once for any article/entry/whatever. AND, that rating has to be visible to all, so that shills are exposed.

The dig thing does sound like all we'll see are the already popular articles, journals, geek lists, and games. How is it that much different that using the counters or number of replies that we already have. I can tell from the reply numer which journals are hot.
 
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Shannon Appelcline
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I don't think a few loud and repetitive whiners should force you to change the ratings system, which generally works fine. Make all the ratings non-anonymous, and the gaming currently going on disappears.
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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Tipping
We need the ability to tip sheep. Um, no. Let me try again.

For every picture, article, GL, comment, journal entry, etc. I would like to see a `tip 1 GG' icon (inverted sheep?) and a count of how many GG were tipped. This would support the creation of content that people like. In general, it would show what is good (since you can see how much something was tipped by other people, you would feel less inclined to tip something that was already tipped a few times unless it was really good). We could identify best lists, articles, best of particular users, etc.

Note that the scheme becomes broken for ratings if two players just keep exchanging huge amounts of GG back and forth. Kind of like Modern Art.
 
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Mark Haberman
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I think the Dig thing might be cool, but consider using the percentage of digs instead of straight digs.

In other words, digs/views = diggability.

Other wise, articles which get an initial high dig factor will continue to grow since more people will visit, and more obscure but excellent content will get overlooked.

Just a thought,

What do you think?

cool or gulp ?
 
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Mark Haberman
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Or maybe just have 4 options to click at the bottom of each item instead of a drop down. I think it would encourage more responses, especially if clicking the rating returned the user back to the previous page.

Maybe something like.

meeple gulp
 
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Justin Fitzgerald
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Another Related Topic
To digg or not to digg - the option to is what I'd like to see. I kind of like the way journals are being used like a chat room. You get about twenty topics a day to discuss. They move on in time.

Whatever is getting talked about most recently at the top would be fine too, but this is about like any good forum anywhere in which case I'd say "well how about some full scale forums then?"

Related topic: There was a discussion about War of the Rings miniature painting and while I had a slew of great information about the subject, it seems a little foolish to post it to just the War of the Ring area since it actually applies to any miniatures for any game.

It would be kind of cool to have a place for SERIOUS articles like a guide to miniature painting to reside.

Secondly, it would be cool if you could choose to tie a journal entry to a particular ONE game. That way if you are talking about the War of the Ring, the journal doesn't disappear into absolute obscurity.

The reason stuff like this gets talked about on the journals is because they are on the front of the site. Why use an article when I can get an immediate response with a journal?
 
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Matthew Frederick
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Javascript RPC
This isn't only about dig, but if you made rating things (both dig and ratings in general) use Javascript RPCs so that the page wouldn't have to reload (on browsers that support it), I think you'd see a lot more ratings, and as such the ratings would be more useful.

Just a thought.
 
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Justin Fitzgerald
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Someone mentioned getting the rating out of a drop down - great idea. If I could click a circle from 1 to 5, that'd definitely make me more likely to rate.

If you want more meaningful ratings, I'd suggest requiring a comment.
 
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