Peter Brichs
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Yesterday, a friend was over, and we started talking about how you could make campaigns for LNoE, instead of just single scenarios.

We threw a lot of ideas around, and one of them was this:
Creating a reward deck.

How this would work:
You create a batch of scenarios, that are made to be played in succession. For instance:
Scenario 1: Escape in the truck base scenario
Scenario 2: The truck has run out of gas, and you must now escape on foot to a safehouse.
Scenario 3: You must defend the safehouse, while waiting for the military
Scenario 4: You've been safed by the military; now they've asked you to go back and destroy X, as this is the source of the zombie plague.

All heroes and items are carried over from one scenario to the next.
Depending on who won (and how fast you won), you get rewards, something akin to the heroes leveling up in an RPG.
Examples of hero rewards:
+1 movement
All heroes get to draw one card at the start of the turn
All buildings are Well Stocked
etc.

Example of Zombie Rewards:
+d6 zombies at start of turn
Zombie autospawn
One startzombie has graveweapon
Once pr game, can sacrifice 2 zombies to spawn a Zombie Hero
etc

Example of how a card would probably look:


Depending on how many cards I can think of, I'll either create 2 full decks of 54 cards (one for zombie rewards, one for hero rewards) or split it right up the middle (27 rewards for each). I'll then create an artscow deck - hopefully, before the current sale runs out on July 5th.

What do you guys think? And do you have ideas for rewards?
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Re: New deck: Rewards
Good point!
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Steven Albano
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Re: New deck: Rewards
Well, without thinking of balance, here are some very quick (obvious ideas) Also, the words at the start possible names:

"Courageous" -- +1 Fight Dice
"Determined" -- +1 to a Fight Dice
"Never Going to Give Up" -- +1 Wound
"This Thing Will Kill You" -- +1 to weapon checks
"Steady Aim" -- +1 to a gun roll
"Agile" -- Can walk through walls and windows.
"Bravery" -- Movement doesn't end when walking through a space with a zombie
"Teamwork" -- Whenever someone else in the same space as this hero fights, this hero also fights.
"Quick" -- Can search and move during the same turn.
"Can't Waste Time" -- Can use any item searched or traded for during the first turn they get it.
"It's Just you and Me" -- Zombie can't use fight cards when fighting this hero.
"Where is It?" -- Instead of searching, can shuffle two hero cards from the hero discard pile back into the hero deck.

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Ax Bits
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Re: New deck: Rewards
colormage1 wrote:
"Can't Waste Time" -- Can use any item searched or traded for during the first turn they get it.


Can't they do this already?
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Re: New deck: Rewards
Sounds like a terrific idea, Peter!


I think we'll give it a try....
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Peter Brichs
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Re: New deck: Rewards
Thanks for the replies.

So far I've "made up" 22 rewards for Heroes and 17 for Zombies.

I've divided them into subgroups, and try and create equally many cards in the same group for zombies and heroes both, in order to make it somewhat balanced.

These are the groups (not that they'll be names as such on the cards themselves, but just to let people get an idea of what I've done so far)
At the start: These cards give you a bonus at the start of the scenario.
Dots: These add some of the dots rules to the game.
Remove: Cards that allow you to remove other cards (be they "Remains in play" or "Reward Cards"
+1: Cards that give you +1 to certain actions
Search markers: These cards add the bonuses from the "Search Markers" from SoTF. Ambush and +1 Hero respectfully
Play this: Cards that are played on a specific zombie or hero
Rules change: Cards that subtly change some of the ground rules. (for instance: Can use a weapon the same round it's been exchanged )
Deck: Cards that allow you to discard or reshuffle cards into decks.
Discard: Cards that give an effect when discarded
Sacrifice & discard: Cards that give an effect when discarded but you must make a sacrifice
5 turns: Cards that have an effect for 5 turns, and must be discarded.
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Peter Brichs
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Re: New deck: Rewards
Update:

I've decided on a name for this "mini-expansion": Risk & Reward

I'm almost done with the effects of the different rewards, and will soon move on to creating all the cards.

I've also decided to make a leveling system. I loved the idea that
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added in EXPERIENCE & WILLPOWER - New Rules Set for LNOE, so I created an offshot of this:
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Michael Kefauver
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Re: New deck: Rewards
The only big problem I can see here is that with random 'reward' draws, it can lead to increasingly unbalanced gameplay. I mean, if the heroes/zombies win a scenario, doesn't that mean, even without the 'leveling' that they're likely to have a good shot at the next one, too? It just seems like a slippery slope. We won, now we get a free search every turn, so we win again, now we get +1 to gun rolls, so we win again, so we get an extra wound each...

Also, judging from the ideas (just the ones posted above, so I'm not commenting on a final product, just the preliminary ideas) above, there's a huge difference in the reward powers. 1 free card at the beginning of every turn for every hero? All buildings being well-stocked (without a dot advantage to the zombies?)? Those seem really strong. Likewise, autospawning zombies seems a heck of a lot stronger than being able to spawn one zombie hero by sacrificing zombies.


I think part of it, also, is that it seems to break with the theme, some of the ideas. I get that killing a lot of zombies could give you a +1 to your gun rolls, but how does it make the buildings well-stocked? How does it let you trip over a new weapon/item/event every turn, no matter where you are? It reminds me of the 'level up' servers for a PC game called Zombie Master. Some upgrades made a lot of sense (extra max ammo, extra max health), some made a bit of sense (running faster, auto-healing) and some just made me scratch my head. (Regenerating ammo? How does THAT work? Are you making bullets on the run? Crapping out shotgun shells?).

I like the idea of a campaign game for LNoE, but I think random level-ups could lead to a source of frustration. Unlike lucky card/character draws (which can be mitigated, reversed, canceled, etc. through the use of cards by the other side), lucky 'upgrades' seem like they could make one team unstoppable, especially if they got the upgrades from winning a previous game, AND get to keep their characters/stuff. As a hero, I think I'd give up if the zombies got zombies auto-spawn and +d6 zombies every turn, and as a zombie player, I think I'd despair if all heroes got a free draw every turn and had four 3 or 4 health youth heroes that could insta-heal running around.
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Peter Brichs
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Re: New deck: Rewards
I agree with your assessment, it has the possibility of making the game not fun for one side or the other, if it turns out that a reward is overpowered. I have included 4 cards per side that allows you to remove reward cards from the other side. On the other hand, this "expansion" is intended for advanced and experienced players. It might just be my group, but we can

This is also a first version, so I might revise it over time, depending on the

When playing with the level up system for the Heroes, the zombie player gets to draw a reward card every time a Hero dies (suicide or not).

Since posting the preliminary ideas, I have added a time limit to many of the cards, and have nerfed a lot of my initial idead (for instance, the "all buildings are wellstocked" has been changed to "choose a building: this building is now well stocked").

Thanks for your concerns; I'll keep them in mind before creating the final product and appreciate the input

EDIT:
Regarding the
Quote:
As a hero, I think I'd give up if the zombies got zombies auto-spawn and +d6 zombies every turn, and as a zombie player, I think I'd despair if all heroes got a free draw every turn and had four 3 or 4 health youth heroes that could insta-heal running around.

This will definitely not happen with "Risk & Reward", but I understand your concern, when you've only seen the preliminary ideas.
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Roman F
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Re: New deck: Rewards
Love it! I touched on this idea in this thread:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/515510/connecting-scenar...

We actually ran this over the weekend:

Heroes Defend the Manor House
Heroes go for a Supply Run
Heroes must Burn It to the Ground (added Zombie Auto Spawn, 2 Hero Start cards)

We faced some challenges in maintaining continuity but overall it was a ton of fun. After piloting it out, here's what I would do next time:

- All surviving heroes are played in the next scenario whether they win or lose. We wanted all heroes to die if they lost but that often means you'd go through 7 heroes in a single scenario and then run out of heroes by the 3rd scenario.

- All "surviving" zombie heroes are played in the next scenario whether they win or lose. The zombie player may spawn a zombie hero in place of any 2 zombies. All other rules for zombie heroes are the same, e.g. they don't count against your zombie pool.

- Items may be carried over but only if all conditions are met:
1. The heroes must win
2. The heroes must survive with items
3. There must be hero start cards or a hero card pool

The heroes may replace each start card or card pool card with an item from the previous scenario.

So, let's say the heroes win and Sam survives with a Sledge Hammer and the next scenario has 2 hero start cards. Sam may replace 1 of his 2 start cards with the Sledge Hammer.

Alternatively, you could add hero start cards to the next scenario to accomodate carry-over items, and then give the zombies offsetting dots.

Why all these conditions? The same reason there are concerns over the "Rewards" deck -- preserving game balance. To simply give heroes extra items of their choice is too much. Let's say the next scenario starts with 2 hero start cards, are we saying that Jake could bring his Shotgun and Ammo to the next scenario IN ADDITION to 2 start cards? Yikes. In fact, getting to replace your 2 hero start cards with Shotgun and Ammo is pretty darn good.

Even after this, you do need to keep an eye on what's being carried over and be prepared to make adjustments to preserve balance. For example, in our 2nd scenario, SUPPLY RUN, the heroes didn't have any items worth bringing but the zombies had 2 zombie heroes added to their team. This had a significant effect, giving the zombies 2 more total bodies, 2 of which were faster and sturdier than the rest. SUPPLY RUN typically results in zombie victory when 3 heroes are killed, but after the 2nd hero was killed, we tweaked the rule so that 4 heroes needed to be killed to offset the significant addition of 2 zombie heroes.

You get the idea? You can do this and it's fun, but if preserving balance is important to you, you can't simply give a bonus to the winning side.
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Peter Brichs
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Re: New deck: Rewards
I really love the idea of your carry-over conditions. I'll probably include these in the rules...

My hope is that I'll complete this today, and post the pictures of it here, so people can comment before I submit the final file for approval, and upload to artscow.
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Michael Kefauver
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Re: New deck: Rewards
Peter,

It's nice to see someone making a variant listen to and respond to others like you did. It was calm, concise, discussed my concerns in a nice, logical manner, and was downright friendly. I've found too many other times where a possible balance question was brought up in a thread like this only for the creator to jump blindly to the defense of their creation. My thanks, and I'll have to give this a try when it's done.
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Peter Brichs
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Re: New deck: Rewards
It is I who thank you :-)

a) because it's nice to be appreciated
and
b) well, I did ask you (that goes for all of you) for feedback. Who am I to get mad at you for providing something, I've asked for myself, when you also responded in a nice tone, with real reasons for your concerns..
If your response had been along the lines of "lollo overpowered lollo you are teh suck" (not that I've yet to experience BGG users of that "persuation") I might have gotten annoyed, but promptly ignoring you.
Arguing on the internet is like trying to make a statue laugh...pointless.

At least, that's my two cents :o)

Edit:
Oh! Status update:
So, status update:

Reward system: 50%
Rules: 100% completed
Cards: 40 % (I've created 90% of the different types of card, now I just need the last 10% and to create the decks)

Leveling system: 100%
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Re: New deck: Rewards
Okay, so while I am chugging away at creating the cards, I'll post the list of cards that I've created so far...

Rules:
Quote:
“Risk and Reward” is a fanmade, 100% unofficial mini-expansion for Last Night on Earth. I am not affiliated with Flying Frog Productions, and everything in this mini-expansion is provided free of charge to all who is interested.

This mini-expansion uses rules and concepts introduced in both the official Growing Hunger expansion and the official Survival of the Fittest expansion, and as such, both will be needed in order to gain the full enjoyment from this mini-expansion.

Included in this expansion is:
1x Hero Reward Deck (48 cards)
1x Zombie Reward Deck (48 cards)
1x Hero Leveling Deck (5 cards)
1x Rules

Rules:
Reward Deck:
All the original rules from Last Night on Earth remain unchanged for this mini-expansion. Both Reward Decks are built to balance eachother out, and thus the idea is to use them at the same time. The Reward Deck uses heavily from the Survival Decks and the Grave Weapons Deck from Survival of The Fittest, so it is recommended that they are used in conjunction.

The idea behind the Reward Deck is that it allows to create a campaign (ie. Several scenarios joined together in a row). When a scenario from the campaign is completed, the winning team gets to draw a card from the teams Reward Deck.

As the Reward Deck contains cards that adds certain Dot rules from the expansions, it is not recommended to use scenarios that have Dot rules associated with them (except for the Survival & Grave Weapon decks).

You take the cards on your hand (except for “At the start of the Scenario”-cards). The cards are not limited to the Player who drew it, but works across the entire team. When you've played a card, you must discard it. If the Reward Deck should run out, you run out of rewards. It will not be shuffled back in play.

Once a scenario has ended, all Reward Cards are removed from all Heroes and Zombies.

Card types:
The cards can be put into X different types.
“At the start of the Scenario”: Cards, that have an effect at the start of the current scenario. If drawn in the middle of a scenario, treat it as a “play immediately”.

“For the rest of the Scenario”: These cards have an effect for the rest of scenario, and must be treated as “play immediately”.

“Discard”: Play these as any regular card. You discard it, and the effect takes place immediately.


“For the next 5 rounds:” These cards have an effect that only remains active for 5 rounds.
Limit: One card in play per team at a time.

“Play on a...” These cards are to be placed on a single character or item. Cannot be removed by ANY player (not even the player controlling the character/item, except by playing a specific “Discard”-Reward card.
Limit: One card per character or item.

“Sacrifice”: You must pay a certain price, in order to play this card.

“Choose a Building”: These cards have an effect, that only concerns one single building.
Limit: One per building.

“Play with”: These cards must be played with another Hero or Zombie card.

Note: The limits for these cards only apply to that specific type of card. For instance, you can have a “Play on a...”-, “Choose a Building”- and “For the next 5 rounds”-card in play at the same time.

Leveling Deck:
When using the leveling deck, the Heroes will get the opportunity to advance. The Heroes take a Leveling card each, and place it in front of their character sheet. Whenever a Hero kills 6 zombies, they advance in level. Heroes start at level 0.
You can use a d6 and place it on the card, in order to count how many zombies you have killed.
When using the Leveling Deck, the Zombie player gets a Reward Card every time a Hero dies (even in case of suicide).


Hero Rewards:
Quote:
At the start of the scenario, draw one Unique Item and give it to a hero
At the start of the scenario, each hero draws one card from the Hero Deck
At the start of the scenario, draw one Survival Tactic
At the start of the scenario, you get a fifth hero. This hero will NOT be replenished when dead.
For the rest of the scenario, Heroes will replenish
For the rest of the scenario, Heroes can place barricades in this scenario
Discard to fully heal all heroes
Discard to remove up to 2 Zombie cards that Remains in Play
Discard to remove up to 2 Zombie cards that Remains in Play
Discard to remove a Zombie Reward card
Discard to remove a Zombie Reward card
Discard to remove a Zombie Reward card
Discard to immediately move a hero d6 spaces (if in combat, the fight ends)
Play on a Hero: On a roll of 5+, instead of searching, this Hero can shuffle the top two cards from Discard into the Hero Deck
Play on a Hero. For the rest of the scenario, the hero now has an extra wound
Play on a Hero. For the rest of the scenario, the hero now has an extra wound
Play on a Hero. This round, the Hero may now both search and move d3 spaces.
Play on a Hero: For the next 2 turns, the Hero can hide from Zombie Hunger on a roll of 3+ (per Zombie)
Play on a Hero. For the next 2 turns, the hero may move a max of 6 spaces, without rolling for movement.
Play on a Hero. For the next 2 turns, the hero may move a max of 6 spaces, without rolling for movement.
Play on a Hero: Movement doesn't end when entering a space with a zombie. You must still fight it, though
Play on a Hero. This Hero can throw items with a range of 2 as a move action. The recieving player most roll 6+ to catch.
Play on a Revolver to give it +1 Range
Play on a Hero: This hero can carry one more item.
Play on a Hero: This hero can carry one more weapon.
For the next 5 rounds, all healing items will now fully heal, no matter what their description says.
For the next 5 rounds, all Heroes can use a weapon the same round it's been exchanged (during exchange items phase)
For the next 5 turns, Heroes gain +1 to movement
For the next 5 turns, Heroes gain +1 to movement
For the next 5 rounds, Heroes get +1 when rolling to see if ranged weapons are out of ammo.
For the next 5 rounds, Heroes +1 when rolling to see if hand weapons break
For the next 5 rounds, Heroes get +1 to ranged attacks
For the next 5 rounds, Heroes can hide from Zombie Hunger, on a roll of 5+.
For the next 5 rounds, Heroes add +1 to their fight dice.
For the next 5 rounds, Heroes win on ties.
For the next 5 rounds, zombies must first roll 3+ in order to attack Heroes.
Sacrifice: One ranged weapon & discard this card to draw Hand Weapon from Discard Pile
Sacrifice: Two weapons & discard this card to draw a Survival Tactic and a Unique Item
Sacrifice: One item & discard this card to draw Revolver from Discard Pile
Choose a building. For the rest of this scenario, Heroes get one extra fight dice in there
Choose a building. For the rest of this scenario, This building has ”Pick up: Revolver”
Choose a building. For the rest of this scenario, a Hero can force a Zombie to reroll one of it's fight dice, while in this building.
Choose a building. For the rest of this scenario, this building is Well Stocked .
Choose a building. For the rest of this scenario, this building is Well Stocked .
Play with the Hero card ”At last...” to heal a wound on a Hero as well
Play with the Hero card ”Ammo” to avoid discarding the ”Ammo” card
Play with the Hero card ”Old Betsy” to let her Remain In Play
Play with the Hero card ”Just what I needed” to draw any non-weapon from Hero Deck, instead of normal function


Zombie cards:
Quote:
At the start of the scenario, place +d6 zombies from your pool
At the start of the scenario, you get to place 1 free Grave Weapon zombie
At the start of the scenarios, you get to place a Spawning pit in a building of your choice
At the start of the scenario, you get an extra zombie pool of 7 zombies. These can exceed the normal limit on zombies, but are removed from the game once killed
For the rest of the scenario, you have Zombie Autospawn
For the rest of the scenario, your Zombie Pool limit is increased by 1
Discard to remove up to 2 Hero cards that Remains in Play
Discard to remove up to 2 Hero cards that Remains in Play
Discard to remove a Hero Reward card
Discard to remove a Hero Reward card
Discard to remove a Hero Reward card
Discard to place three zombies from your pool in the same space as any hero.
Discard to spawn 6 zombies.
Play on a zombie. This zombie now has an extra wound
Play on a zombie. This zombie now has an extra wound
Play on a zombie. This zombie is now Recently Dead, and may move d3+1
Play on a zombie. For the next 2 turns, this Zombie is not affected by Zombie Hunger
Play on a zombie. When it gets attacked with a ranged weapon, cancel wound on a d6 roll of 5+
Play on a zombie. For the next 2 turns, this Zombie is not affected by Zombie Hunger
Play on a Zombie: When wounding a hero, roll a d6. On a roll of 5+, shuffle two cards from the Discard into the Zombie Deck
Play on a Zombie: This zombie can now move 2 spaces
Play on a Zombie: This zombie can now move 2 spaces
Play on a zombie. For the next 2 turns, this Zombie is not affected by Zombie Hunger
Play on a Zombie: This zombie now has a Grave Weapon
Play on a Zombie: This zombie now has a Grave Weapon
For the next 5 turns, spawn 1 zombie at the end of each Zombie turn.
For the next 5 rounds, Zombies add +1 to their fight dice.
For the next 5 rounds, Zombies add +1 to their movement.
For the next 5 rounds, Zombies add +1 to their movement.
For the next 5 rounds, Heroes must first roll 2+ in order to attack Zombies. Discard to activate
For the next 5 rounds, a Zombie-colour of your choosing will be Grave Dead (See Growing Hunger)
For the next 5 rounds, you will always get Zombie heroes
For the next 5 rounds, Zombie Hand limit +1 (pr player)
For the next 5 rounds, -1 when rolling to see if you can spawn new zombies
For the next 5 rounds, +1 to roll when spawning zombies
For the next 5 rounds, +1 to roll when spawning zombies
Sacrifice: 1 zombie & discard this card to allow all zombies to move 3 spaces this turn
Sacrifice: 2 zombies & discard this card to spawn a Zombie Hero
Sacrifice: one Zombie card to spawn a Grave Weapon Zombie
Choose a building. For the rest of this scenario, Zombies get one extra fight dice in there.
Choose a building. For the rest of this scenario, Zombies who start their move in this building get +1 movement.
Choose a building. For the rest of this scenario, a Zobmie can force a Hero to reroll one of it's fight dice, while in this building.
Choose a building. For the rest of this scenario, Zombies add +1 all fight dice in this building
Choose a building. For the rest of this scenario, Zombies add +1 all fight dice in this building
Play with the Zombie card ”Shamble” to add +3 to your roll.
Play with the Zombie card ”Undead Hate The Living” to make the Heroes rerolled dice -1
Play with the Zombie card ”This could be our last night on earth” to make it work with 2 male Heroes
Play with the Zombie card ”Uuuurrrgggh!” to add +1 to all Zombie fight dice in this fight



The resourceful might have noticed that the number of cards don't add up to 2 full decks (108 cards). That is simply because I have added the rules to 7 cards as well :-)
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Peter Brichs
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Re: New deck: Rewards
Release: Risk & Reward, a fanmade expansion for Last Night on Earth.



These are the direct Artscow links. Everything is included; 48 Hero Reward Cards, 48 Zombie Reward Cards, 7 cards with Rules and 5 Leveling Cards.

I'm going to create a pdf with the mini-expansion, so people can craft them, if they don't want to use the artscow option, but I've added the cards to artscow, so people can take advantage of their current sale.

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Daniel
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Neat. How did you make the background graphics of these cards? Is there a draft for such "blank cards" anywhere to be downloaded?
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Peter Brichs
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There's a blank Zombie and a blank Hero card on www.thezombiegame.com
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Daniel
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Brichs wrote:
There's a blank Zombie and a blank Hero card on www.thezombiegame.com


I guess after registering I'll be able to see the downloads, right? Thanks.


Now I just have to find such blank cards for Marvel Heroes...
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1. This would only work in an ongoing campaign series, therefore you would need to create a Left 4 Dead 2 like connected campaigns with a safe room or something to start out the next mission.

2. If risk/reward is truly the title then have ALL of the cards, both god and bad things can be picked at the conclusion of the mission by each player. And some of these MUST be permanent in that they reduce hand or limit size.

3. There should be reward deck draws ONLY for doing something very specific within a mission which is NOT related to winning/surviving, i.e., saving a kid yelling in another side of town while trying to hold out rather than choosing to save your own butt and skip town.

4. I would like to see a much greater variety of playing boards as well. This is one of the major drawbacks in the replayability of the game. Need to see if my Zombies! game maps fit the figures so we can have more board variety.

5. For those of you who haven't, visit the FFG website for additional scenarios expansions and cool game pieces not generally advertised anywhere else.
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Peter Brichs
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Engoduun wrote:
Brichs wrote:
There's a blank Zombie and a blank Hero card on www.thezombiegame.com


I guess after registering I'll be able to see the downloads, right? Thanks.;)


Now I just have to find such blank cards for Marvel Heroes...


Or else I could just mail them to you, if you want. Just drop me a line if so :)
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Brichs wrote:
Engoduun wrote:
Brichs wrote:
There's a blank Zombie and a blank Hero card on www.thezombiegame.com


I guess after registering I'll be able to see the downloads, right? Thanks.


Now I just have to find such blank cards for Marvel Heroes...


Or else I could just mail them to you, if you want. Just drop me a line if so


Why, thank you! Sure... geekmail's on the way.
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Peter Brichs
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Jason from Flying Frog asked me very nicely to remove the links for Artscow, as they can't allow people to have products for sale that use their artwork and IP, which - for me - is completely understandable.

So, no more links.
Still waiting on the ok for the pdf version, though.
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