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Sturm Europa!» Forums » General

Subject: Sturm Europa and Europe Engulfed rss

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Willem Boersma
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I already own Europe engulfed. Though I'm tempted to also buy this one, I'd like to know in which ways the two games are different and similar. I also found a living rules document on this site, but it only seems to contain the first page of it...
 
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Adam Ruzzo
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I'll be posting an extensive comparison/preview later today based on a playtesters I was lucky enough to be involved in. Stay tuned!
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Seth Gunar
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I've played EE quite a bit and have been fortunate enough to be introduced to Sturm by Mike at the last WBC. I would summarize the main differences between the two with two words: "What If?"

Sturm allows you to ask that question in a multitude of ways, while EE
presents you with the historical predicates as a fait d'accompli (for the most part). The only real "what ifs" you get in EE are:

What if the Germans invaded England?
What if the Germans invaded Spain?
What if the Germans did not invade Russia?
What if the Germans focused their war effort on the U-Boat War and/or Strategic Bombing?

Having played EE a lot, I can tell you that the last two what-ifs are illusory. There will be a war between the USSR and the Germans inevitably. And if you focus every last WERP you can on the U-Boat War, you will still end up with a historical result (it is mathematically inevitable). I have pushed U-Boats to the max and D-Day still comes in full force - but you are weak as hell on the Eastern Front.

The first What If is extremely difficult and almost never tried.

The second just seems to end up giving the Germans more coast to defend in the long run.

So - to STURM EUROPA.

Mike lets you pursue all sorts of intriguing what-ifs. The one that interested me the most was this:

What if there was no "Ezhovschina" (known in the west as "The Great Terror") in Russia before the war?

This is extremely significant and it is a plausible counter-factual. The Red Army leadership was decimated. This included the loss of one of the potentially great military commanders of the 20th Century - Marshal Tuckachevsky. Few wargamers know the original term for Blitzkrieg - "Deep Battle" - which was developed by Tuckachevsky. Much of the German doctrine in WWII was a product of joint exercises conducted in Russia between the Red Army and the rump Reichswehr (that eventually became the Wehrmacht). During the 20s, the USSR and Germany had a close relationship because they were both diplomatic pariahs.

So what if Tuckachevsky and the rest of the quality Red Army leadership was still in place in 1939-1940. Does the Red Army kick the crap out of Finland instead of blundering? Does the immediate intended Russian counter-attack stop Barbarossa dead in its tracks?

What impressed me most and what showed me how much thought Mike put into the game is the fact that if this what-if is pursued it comes with a price. The purges gave Stalin a terror grip on the USSR that he used ruthlessly to keep the USSR from collapsing. With no purges, that level of terror does not exist and the likelihood of a collapse (in the event of military misfortune) is greatly enhanced.

STurm also offers the potential for diplomatic realignments.

It also offers you the chance to invest resources in different military technologies.

EXAMPLE:

What if the Germans invested more effort early on into the production of a quality U-Boat? The Type VIIC was really nothing more than a submersible torpedo boat. In 1945, they finally produced a submarine that could use its diesels and move at flank speed indefinitely underwater with the "Schnorkel." But it came too late. If it was available in 1943, would there have been a "Black May"?

Finally, the block/unit density in Sturm is much lower than in EE. This is important (to me at least) because I thought it was really strange how in EE you end up with one area that has a huge blob of blocks while the other 1,000 miles of front are defended with one or two blocks per space. In EE, the distribution of forces on the front is much more realistic as a result.

Anyway, that is what little I remember - it was almost a year ago. I'm very excited about the game and hope to see the even more refined product this year.
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Adam Ruzzo
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Agreed on all points! I just posted my exhaustive report and am awaiting moderation. Check back her in the SE! forums in a few hours.
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M@tthijs
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Did you visit my www.kobudovenlo.nl? It has game info
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GameWhore wrote:
Finally, the block/unit density in Sturm is much lower than in EE. This is important (to me at least) because I thought it was really strange how in EE you end up with one area that has a huge blob of blocks while the other 1,000 miles of front are defended with one or two blocks per space. In EE, the distribution of forces on the front is much more realistic as a result.

Is this a typo or reallly what you wanted to say? It's seems to be in conflict with the rest of the paragraph/ your post.
 
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Seth Gunar
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My apologies dear sir, change that from EE to SE.
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M@tthijs
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Did you visit my www.kobudovenlo.nl? It has game info
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Thanks for clearing that up. You just puzzled me for a moment, so I asked.
However, the power to edit is solely yours - and the admins
 
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Björn Hansson
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GameWhore wrote:
Does the immediate intended Russian counter-attack stop Barbarossa dead in its tracks?


In which case the game would be pretty pointless, unless you allow the Germans to build nukes in 1942...
 
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Michael Tan
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taragalinas wrote:
GameWhore wrote:
Does the immediate intended Russian counter-attack stop Barbarossa dead in its tracks?


In which case the game would be pretty pointless, unless you allow the Germans to build nukes in 1942...


In most games it would be suicidal for the Soviets to attack in early 41. The Icebreaker cards is intended to give them options if Germany struggles in France, invades the UK, or hasn't attack by 42...
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Andreas Jõesaar
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GameWhore wrote:
I've played EE quite a bit and have been fortunate enough to be introduced to Sturm by Mike at the last WBC. I would summarize the main differences between the two with two words: "What If?"


Thanks for the preview!
And the game goes to my Must Have list because it resembles a lot to the computer game "Hearts of Iron". Does anybody know, did the designer got inspiration from there?
 
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