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Here I Stand» Forums » Sessions

Subject: HIS168 ends with a big risk . . . rss

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Greg Forster
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"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning" - Dr. Reiner Knizia
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HIS168

Ottoman: Simon Haldon
Hapsburg: Phillip Thomas
England: Jon Karlsson
France: Russ Hewson
Papacy: Greg Forster
Protestant: Kristian Thy

Turn 1

Diplomacy: England allies with France.

Deployment:

Ottoman: Suleiman, three regulars and a cavalry to Nicopolis.
Hapsburg: Ferdinand and four regulars to Besancon.
England: Stack to Calais.
France: Montmorency and one regular to Lyons.
Papacy: One regular to Ravenna.

Religious Struggle: The 95 Theses flip Magdeburg, Brandenburg, and Leipzig, miss in Nuremburg and flip Brunswick. In the Diet of Worms, on seven dice to two the Protestant wins 3-2 (“splendid ROI”). He flips Nuremburg. Papacy plays Defender of the Faith, flipping Nuremburg and Brunswick but missing in Leipzig. Protestant puts 2CP into the German New Testament plus Luther’s bonus and publishes, flipping Erfurt but missing in Lubeck. In the Leipzig Debate, Eck beats Bucer 2-1, flipping Erfurt. Protestant publishes with Carlstadt, missing in Erfurt (placing unrest), flipping Lubeck and missing Brunswick (placing unrest). Next impulse he picks up Andrea Doria from the discard.

Eastern Theater: Ottoman launches ships and besieges Rhodes. He plays his home card to build regulars in his Nicopolis stack. Hapsburg then plays War in Persia; Ottoman sends three regulars and a cavalry from Nicopolis and a regular from Rhodes. He then besieges Belgrade and assaults Rhodes, taking it. Hapsburg builds mercs in Vienna. Papacy offers to play Janissaries Rebel if the Hapsburg will chip in some of the cost; Hapsburg offers a card draw and two mercs the next turn, which the Papacy accepts, placing unrest in Nezh, Sofia, Bucharest and Istanbul. Ottoman uses his last 2CP to remove unrest in Sofia and Istanbul in order to avoid suffering attrition (the group is uncertain whether he can remove it from Nezh, since there is an adjacent enemy but it’s a minor power unit).

Western Theater: Hapsburg offers France a truce this turn and peace the next turn in exchange for letting him take Metz and giving him Besancon; France agrees. Hapsburg builds mercs in Antwerp and Brussels. England builds a merc in Calais and besieges Metz. France builds troops in Paris. England assaults Metz but whiffs. Next impulse he builds troops in Calais and London, then takes Metz. France builds a merc in Paris.

Northern Theater: England DOWs Scotland. This is illegal because he’s allied to France, but the group fails to realize this.

Southern Theater: Papacy builds two mercs in Ravenna. Later he builds two regulars in Rome.

New World: Hapsburg and France send colonies. Every power drew its worst explorer; Willoughby and Roberval whiff, but Narvaez discovers the Mississippi. Pizarro and the French conquistador both whiff.

Score:

Ottoman: 8
Hapsburg: 10
England: 11
France: 12
Papacy: 18
Protestant: 1

Turn 2

Diplomacy: Hapsburg allies with France and gives him Besancon; he also gives the Papacy a card draw and a merc (the other merc he promised earlier was substituted for a DOW of Venice). England allies with France and the Protestant. France and the Papacy end their war. Ottoman DOWs the Papacy. Hapsburg DOWs both the Ottoman and Venice; Papacy intervenes to activate Venice, and having an extra CP he can’t do anything else with he also DOWs Genoa. France also DOWs Genoa.

Deployment:

Ottoman: Suleiman, Ibrahim and seven regulars to Sofia
Hapsburg: Charles and four regulars to Brussels
England: Henry, Brandon and five regulars to Calais
France: Francis, Montmorency, five regulars and two mercs to Grenoble
Papacy: None

Religious Struggle: Papacy starts a debate in English; Contarini and Tyndale tie 1-1; Aleander beats Tyndale 2-1, flipping Leipzig and Lubeck. Protestant puts 1CP into the German New Testament and adds Melancthon’s bonus, completing it; he misses in Lubeck, flips Stettin, misses in Leipzig, flips Innsbruck and Basel, and misses in Strasburg. Protestant then plays Katerina von Bora, using Bucer’s bonus; he misses in Strausburg, flips Besancon, Leipzig, and Lubeck, but misses in Hamburg. In the Leipzig Debate, Eck beats Tyndale 3-1, flipping Besancon and Basel. Protestant puts 3CP into the German Bible, then another 2CP, then 5CP to complete it, flipping Hamburg, Bremen, and Munster, missing in Kassel, and flipping Koln and Mainz. He puts 3CP into the French New Testament, then publishes with Carlstadt, missing in Nuremburg, Worms and Salzburg (placing unrest). He then uses his home card to pick up and hold Trace Italienne.

Eastern Theater: Ottoman marches to Nezh, removes unrest there and besieges Belgrade. Protestant hands Ottoman a card with Diplomatic Overture. Ottoman takes Belgrade and builds two cavalry in Scutari. Hapsburg plays Trace Italienne to put a fortress and a Hungarian regular in Pressburg. Ottoman uses his home card for four regulars in Scutari. Hapsburg builds a merc in Vienna.

Northern Theater: England builds mercs in York, London and Calais.

Southern Theater: French stack in Grenoble marches over the Alps and besieges Genoa. Papacy moves four regulars from Ravenna to Modena, controls it, and besieges Florence. France plays Shipbuilding for two ships in Marseille. Papacy takes Florence. France launches his ships into the Gulf, assaults Genoa and responds to his own assault with Swiss Mercs, adding three mercs in Genoa and one in Lyons; he takes Genoa.

Special: Henry asks for a divorce. Papacy plays Knights of St. John; Hapsburg puts them in Cagliari to avoid creating a fortress in Italy for the Ottoman to take.

New World: Hapsburg, England and France send colonies. Magellan circumnavigates; Verrazano discovers the Great Lakes; Willoughby discovers the St. Lawrence; and Cordova whiffs.

Score:

Ottoman: 10
Hapsburg: 14
England: 12
France: 15
Papacy: 20
Protestant: 4


Turn 3

Diplomacy: Ottoman allies with France and receives a ship from him. Hapsburg allies with France and the Papacy, loaning all three of his ships to the Papacy. England allies with France and the Protestant. France DOWs the Papacy. Papacy plays Venetian Informant to look at France’s hand.

Deployment:

Ottoman: Ibrahim, four regulars and a cavalry to Rhodes
Hapsburg: Alva and two regulars to Tunis
England: Stack to Berwick
France: Francis, Montmorency, five regulars and two mercs to Grenoble
Papacy: One merc to Florence

Religious Struggle: Protestant starts a debate in German; Carlstadt beats Cajetan ("a flyweight debate") 2-1, flipping Augsburg. He then puts 3CP into the French New Testament and publishes with Bucer, missing (out of zone) in Liege and flipping Trier. In the Leipzig Debate, Eck beats Bucer 3-1, flipping Augsburg and Innsbruck. Protestant publishes, missing in Innsbruck but flipping Nuremburg; he removes unrest in Nuremburg and publishes with Zwingli, flipping Regensburg and Augsburg. Next impulse he picks up Printing Press from the discard, then he publishes with Oekolampedius and flips Basel and Worms.

Western Theater: France builds a merc in Rouen.

Northern Theater: England builds mercs in London and York, and a ship in Berwick.

Southern Theater: France marches over the Alps to besiege Florence and takes control of Geneva. Hapsburg builds a merc in Naples. France besieges Florence and plays Swiss Mercs to add four mercs to his stack; Papacy responds with Mercs Grow Restless to disperse all of France’s mercs. On four dice to five the assault is 1-1; France offers the Papacy a truce and the Papacy agrees. Ottoman builds a cavalry in Scutari. Hapsburg builds a merc in Palma and a ship in Malta; next impulse he builds another ship in Malta, and the next impulse another one.

Naval Activity: Ottoman builds a ship in Coron. Papacy builds ships in Ravenna and Venice (he builds the ship in Ravenna because it’s empty and an Ottoman force could cross the Adriatic next impulse unless there’s a ship there). Ottoman builds another ship in Coron, sails his fleet to the Adriatic and sinks the Papal ship in Ravenna. Papacy brings his three ships around from Rome to the Adriatic, launching his Venetian ships into the Adriatic at the same time, but the Ottoman fleet avoids battle to Scutari. Papacy presses the attack, and on 16 dice to 13 it’s a bloody 6-4. Ottoman builds a ship in Scutari. Papacy attacks again; on 12 dice to 9 it’s 4-3. He attacks again and on ten dice to five it’s 4-2, removing the rest of the Ottoman fleet.

Special: Henry marries Anne Boleyn; no offspring. France builds chateaux. Papacy puts 1CP into St. Peter’s. Near the end of the turn the Ottoman plays Mercs Demand Pay on the Hapsburg, who discards City State Rebels to keep his eight mercs.

New World: Hapsburg and England send colonies. Rut whiffs; Cortez conquers the Mayans.

Score:

Ottoman: 12
Hapsburg: 15
England: 12
France: 16
Papacy: 18
Protestant: 6


Turn 4

Diplomacy: Ottoman allies with France, who loans him two ships; he gives two card draws to the Protestant. Hapsburg allies with the Papacy, who loans all his ships to him; he gives England one merc. England allies with the Protestant and receives a merc from the Papacy. France ends his war with the Papacy.

Deployment:

Ottoman: Stack to Belgrade
Hapsburg: Two regulars to Kassel
England: Stack to Berwick
France: One regular to Besancon
Papacy: Two regulars to Nuremburg

Religious Struggle: England plays Zwingli Dons Armor for the event; the French unit in Besancon dies. Papacy excommunicates Calvin; the lowly Tetzel burns Farel 4-1, flipping Geneva, London and Basel. Protestant plays Printing Press with Cranmer, flipping London, Portsmouth and Bristol. Hapsburg builds mercs in Innsbruck and Linz. Protestant starts a debate in German; Bullinger and Tetzel tie 1-1, then Oekolampedius ties Campeggio 2-2. Hapsburg builds two mercs in Linz and marches them to Regensburg. Papacy burns books with Contarini, flipping Zurich but missing in Regensburg. Protestant publishes with Carlstadt, flipping Kassel, Brunswick and Innsbruck. Papacy burns books with Cajetan, missing in Innsbruck but flipping Regensburg and Augsburg. Protestant removes unrest in Worms and Brunswick, then publishes with Bucer, flipping Augsburg and Strasburg. Hapsburg removes unrest in Erfurt and Salzburg. Papacy plays Erasmus for the event, missing in Strasburg and Innsbruck, flipping Augsburg ("she may not look like much, but she’s got it where it counts") and missing in Bristol. Protestant puts 2CP plus Coverdale’s bonus into the English New Testament. Papacy, with only two strong debaters left uncommitted, plays Leipzig Debate and excludes Cop; however, Olivetan beats Aleander 2-1, flipping Metz and Besancon. Protestant starts a debate in German to prevent the inevitable Eck/Olivetan beatdown; Eck nonetheless beats Melancthon 2-1, flipping Strasburg. Protestant then completes the French New Testament and adds Cop’s bonus, flipping Liege, missing (out of zone) in Strasburg and Augsburg, flipping St. Dizier and Dijon but missing in Orleans. He then publishes a treatise, missing in Augsburg but flipping Salzburg, then completes the English New Testament and adds Latimer’s bonus, flipping Plymouth, Wales, Shrewsbury, Lincoln, York and Carlisle. This puts England on 23VP. Since the Papacy is still losing ties on all Counter-Reformation attempts and England’s explorer or conquistador needs a great roll to win 2VP, the Papacy decides to take a calculated risk and hold his last card rather than burn books in England.

Eastern Theater: Ottoman stack moves to Szgedin. He then builds two cavalry in Nezh and one in Sofia, and controls Szgedin and Ragusa. Near the end of the turn he attacks Buda and loses, but Hungary still falls.

Western Theater: France builds a merc in Paris; Hapsburg builds a merc in Brussels.

Northern Theater: England builds a merc in Berwick, besieges Edinburgh and launches his ships. He takes it in two assaults, then builds a ship in Calais.

Southern Theater: Hapsburg builds two more ships in Malta, plus two regulars in Naples.

Naval Activity: Ottoman moves his two loaned French ships to the Tyrrhenian. Hapsburg plays Julia Gonzaga and the Ottoman pirates, nabbing 1VP plus the bonus 1VP.

Special: Hapsburg, already sitting on a ten-card hand after a hot round in the New World Riches casino, opens the turn by playing Sale of Moluccas to draw two cards. Papacy plays Copernicus for 2VP. France builds chateaux. Henry marries Jane Seymour; sickly Edward is born.

New World: France sends the Potosi Silver Mines and a colony (his earlier colony was wiped out). Hapsburg builds Plantations. All three powers have sent both explorers and conquistadors, but England gets first crack at exploring and Chancellor grabs the Amazon with a natural 12, winning the game.

Score:

Ottoman: 16
Hapsburg: 18
England: 25
France: 17
Papacy: 18
Protestant: 20



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Matt Davis
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I've only played two and a half games now, but...I'm starting to agree with the suggestion (see here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/520754/play-balance-in-1...) that England is a smidge overpowered. Those 5 points you can get from Edward are huge, since they come all at once, and then the English have the best Home Card power in the game to play with.
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I have yet to see England win. I played 30+ games of HIS.

England is underpowered as I see it. They can only win with Protestant help and by rolling well in the New World. A good Papal player will not allow a divorce in turn 3 so that Cranmer won't come on the map until turn 5, i.e. by excommunicating him the English player can't publish treatise until turn 6.

In the English language zone the Protestant should always convert the Scottish spaces before any English one.
 
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Philip Thomas
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The Pope can't stop a divorce in Turn 3 if England wants it to happen, and the English power to publish treatisea is independent of the existence or status of Cranmer. As is the English ability to play Protestant events and negotiate with the Protestant as to which spaces he targets with them.

I also disagree with a Protestant strategy of targetting Scotland first. English home spaces are usually easier targets and focus the enemy's attention on England. Moreover, the Protestant should be aiming for a working alliance with England- one in which both sides are working in their own interest, of course.

Simon, how many Protestant victories have you seen?
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Kristian Thy
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coolpapa wrote:
I'm starting to agree with the suggestion that England is a smidge overpowered.


With all due respect to Jon, England didn't win because he played well but because I was an idiot and didn't keep an eye on the English VP while on a conversion binge fuelled by the printing press. He may well have won on his own, but I handed it to him on a silver platter gulp
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turbothy wrote:
coolpapa wrote:
I'm starting to agree with the suggestion that England is a smidge overpowered.


With all due respect to Jon, England didn't win because he played well but because I was an idiot and didn't keep an eye on the English VP while on a conversion binge fuelled by the printing press. He may well have won on his own, but I handed it to him on a silver platter :gulp:


This is what I was thinking, but I thought it would be rude to second-guess a player who hadn't weighed in.

England gained 13VP in that turn, which is staggering. 5VP from Edward is normal, 2VP from a key is fairly normal. 2VP from the Amazon is a huge boost for England, and that roll can't have been anticipated by anyone, I think.

However, the Prots gave him 4VP, meaning that even if he hadn't made that roll he'd go into the next turn on 23, or 24 with a more moderately successful New World exploration roll. Dangerous territory for sure, especially with publishing his own treatises an option.

The Prots should have been a lot farther along the track themselves before flipping so many red spaces.
 
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Philip Thomas wrote:
The Pope can't stop a divorce in Turn 3 if England wants it to happen
Hmm, what was I thinking ...

Quote:
and the English power to publish treatisea is independent of the existence or status of Cranmer.
At least I'm right here: "If Cranmer is on the map, the English power may also undertake the Publish Treatise action, although the cost for the action is 3 CP." (p. 27, Publish treatise)

Quote:
As is the English ability to play Protestant events and negotiate with the Protestant as to which spaces he targets with them.

I also disagree with a Protestant strategy of targetting Scotland first. English home spaces are usually easier targets and focus the enemy's attention on England. Moreover, the Protestant should be aiming for a working alliance with England- one in which both sides are working in their own interest, of course.
The point is, where do you stop? 23 VP is obviously too late because England could always have Copernicus. Out of the six reformations conducted in this game, three should have been aimed at Scotland. Or put differently, after four flips the other two should have been attempted in Scotland.

Quote:
Simon, how many Protestant victories have you seen?

Four. Three of which by me. laugh
I usually only flip English home spaces to achieve religious auto victory. ninja

To the fourth one I helped a lot as the Pope with many unlucky debates, e.g. committed Latimer beating both Eck and Pole. shake
And the English player flipped a few spaces too. whistle
 
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Greg Forster
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Simon Mueller wrote:
23 VP is obviously too late because England could always have Copernicus.


Not in this game - Copernicus had already been played, by yours truly.
 
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Philip Thomas
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I stand corrected about Cranmer and English treatises, you learn somethiing new every day.

The Amazon was the only Explore VP marker left at this stage. England also had a conquest marker out, and again the only VP markers left there were 2 VPs.

 
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