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Subject: Battles rss

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Daniel Hammond
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According the the rule book a battle takes place when "When a player moves units into an enemy area, he must start a battle." But then goes on to say "The term Battle refers to any time units are fighting each other. Each battle involves two groups of units attacking each other in an attempt to gain control of an area."

The FAQ adds that attacking a stronghold with no army guarding it is a "battle".

So my question is... If an enemy has forces next to an empty home area without a stronghold (enemy) and plays a Mobilize with bonus. Can he take your first province and then move through it to take a second home area with or without a stronghold?
 
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David desJardins
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dlhammond wrote:
So my question is... If an enemy has forces next to an empty home area without a stronghold (enemy) and plays a Mobilize with bonus. Can he take your first province and then move through it to take a second home area with or without a stronghold?


Yes. The general statement that you must start a battle when entering an enemy area is incorrect in this case.
 
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Scott Lewis
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dlhammond wrote:

According the the rule book a battle takes place when "When a player moves units into an enemy area, he must start a battle." But then goes on to say "The term Battle refers to any time units are fighting each other. Each battle involves two groups of units attacking each other in an attempt to gain control of an area."

The FAQ adds that attacking a stronghold with no army guarding it is a "battle".

So my question is... If an enemy has forces next to an empty home area without a stronghold (enemy) and plays a Mobilize with bonus. Can he take your first province and then move through it to take a second home area with or without a stronghold?

No, as that would be two "battles". You could take ONE such area, but not both. I think the rules are a bit misleading/unclear, but I think the FAQ's answer was intended to clarify it (as well as further rules responses from Corey K, the designer).

If you enter an enemy area (even an empty stronghold or home realm), it is considered a "battle". I think the bit you refer to is a general case, but not the ONLY case. IE, a N-vs-0 battle is still a "battle" if the area is an enemy area for any reason.

Note that if you battle, even a one-sided battle, technically you still draw Fate cards for all units involved. For most units, this will just be burning Fate cards, but for Knights and Necromancers, this does matter for triggering their abilities.
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Scott Lewis
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For what it's worth, here's a Question/Answer regarding this topic. It compliments the FAQ question (and the ruling is found in the rulings document I compiled).

Q: If a player moves into an enemy home-realm that has no units or strongholds, does this technically trigger a "battle"? The home-realm is controlled by the enemy technically.

A: Whenever a player moves unit into an enemy area, he starts a battle (even if no enemy unit are present).
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David desJardins
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OK, I can't argue that's inconsistent with the rules, but it makes the FAQ answer very strange, as it obscures more than it clarifies. If you meant any enemy region, then why would you write a response that only mentions strongholds?
 
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Scott Lewis
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DaviddesJ wrote:
OK, I can't argue that's inconsistent with the rules, but it makes the FAQ answer very strange, as it obscures more than it clarifies. If you meant any enemy region, then why would you write a response that only mentions strongholds?

I think the strongholds bit in the FAQ came from a specific question about Strongholds right after the game was released. It was then asked later if it applied to "empty" home realms, too, as those are enemy controlled regions; I think had the "empty home realms" bit been asked earlier, it, too, may have made it in the FAQ.

I think with that ruling, it just makes things consistent overall - anytime you move into an enemy area, it's considered a "battle", regardless of units.

Of course, since that part isn't in an "official" FAQ, if someone wants to play it different, that's up to them
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David desJardins
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Of course, since that part isn't in an "official" FAQ, if someone wants to play it different, that's up to them


Well, as the OP pointed out, the rulebook does say that a battle occurs whenever you enter an enemy region. So I think that rule should be followed regardless of the FAQ. Actually, I would have gotten the original question right if not for the FAQ, which misled me.
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Yeah, I can definitely see that. I've noticed with some of FFG's FAQs, the questions asked sometimes get more specific than they should be, which can be misleading in what they are intending to convey. I sort of remember some questions arising in Twilight Imperium awhile back because of similar FAQ stuff. I wish I could remember what they were, it's been a couple years, and I don't think they were on BGG (it may have been FFG's old forums? I can't remember)

That's really part of why I started compiling those rulings, and when I ask questions to Corey, unless the situation warrants specific interactions, I try to be as generic as possible to hopefully avoid confusion. (I'm not sure I always succeed, but I try )
 
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Daniel Hammond
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Better would be the following:

Q: Do you initiate a battle when you move into an area with an enemy stronghold with no units present? Do you initiate a battle against an empty enemy home realm area when you move in?

A: Yes and Yes, you always initiate a battle regardless of the presence of enemy units when you move into an enemy area.
 
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Scott Lewis
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dlhammond wrote:
Better would be the following:

Q: Do you initiate a battle when you move into an area with an enemy stronghold with no units present? Do you initiate a battle against an empty enemy home realm area when you move in?

A: Yes and Yes, you always initiate a battle regardless of the presence of enemy units when you move into an enemy area.

Yeah, it probably wouldn't hurt to have the FAQ updated for that.

In any case, not to toot my own horn, but I would recommend downloading the "Rulings from Corey" document in the file section. It's a fairly comprehensive document of rulings. All of them come from various emails to the designer himself, so none of them are just "speculation" or guessing as to how they should work.

Corey does occasionally reverse his rulings, and when that happens I do try to update my document. I should perhaps send my document to him, maybe he can incorporate some of the questions in the official FAQ.
 
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Tim Kelly
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I should perhaps send my document to him, maybe he can incorporate some of the questions in the official FAQ.

Yes !
TK
 
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After I make my next update (which I will do as soon as I receive answers to my latest batch of questions), I'll send it to him. I don't know if anything will come of it, but who knows.
 
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