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Tide of Iron» Forums » Rules

Subject: Concealed Squads and Objective Hexes, an issue revisited. rss

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Ray
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Thanks to BBG member Gustavo, this issue I think has come to a clear conclusion. I am in favor of examining only the facts (using the Rules Book and Official FAQ). No more of this "hearsay" foolishness, let us just use cold hard facts. After all, hearsay will not hold up in court, why should it be any different here.

The thread in questions is:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/192518/concealment/page/...

As a result, I will update the RCD file to reflect these facts. The new file name will be "TOI_RCD_June2010v2.pdf".
[Edit] The new file name is TOI_RCD_July2010.pdf

I will update page 12 of the RCD and replace what is already there with the following new clarification:

- - - - - -

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/192518
Q: The rules say that a squad loses concealment if they enter an objective hex. What happens if the squad becomes concealed while already in the objective hex? My question assumes that there is terrain in the hex that offers cover.
A: The Tide of Iron rules book states on page 34 that "If a concealed squad moves into an objective hex (...), it is immediately revealed." The key part of the sentence is "moves into an objective hex" so, technically a concealed squad can occupy an objective hex provided that "the hex’s main terrain type must provide cover (woods, rough, bridge, or building terrain)." Currently, there are only two situations that can take place that will allow a concealed squad to occupy an objective hex:
1) First, a squad moves into the objective hex. Then, during the next turn (or subsequent action turn) you play the Go to Ground Strategy Card and conceal the squad. But if that squad ever moves off the hex, and back on to it again (or another objective hex), the squad becomes revealed. Note that no where in the rules does it say a concealed squad cannot occupy an objective hex.
2) During the start of a scenario you can place a concealed squad (waiting in ambush, sort of speak) in an objective hex. Remember, "any unit that starts on a command objective marker or victory objective marker at the beginning of the scenario automatically controls it." (page 3, Scenario Guide) But if that squad ever moves off the hex, and back on to it again (or another objective hex), the squad becomes revealed. Note that the concealed squad did not move into the objective hex, it was already present during setup and players designate which of their squads are concealed, which can happen after placing starting units.

- - - - - -

Hopefully, Concealed Squads and Objective Hexes; The Never Ending Story has finally ended. Or has it?
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Yiannis Avramandis
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All the above sound correct.

But, if it was a perfectly done rulebook -like Chad's CC:E- then ok, I could accept such a strict way of explanation.

Now we talk for a not so perfectly written rulebook, with lots of "blind" spots.

Maybe the intetion of the designer was to never allow concealed squads and objectives be together but the way he wrote the rule left all the known issues of misunderstanding.

For me the mystery still exist because if the above explanation was something the designer had in mind, then all this exceptions of "moving on the objective or be there from a previous turn etc" would have been included in the original rule.

Why to ommit the exceptions? Because he never had the intetion of allowing things like that to happen.
 
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Ray
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I think they tried to make the rules book look simple and more "Friendly" than a typical wargame rules book. Their rules layout follows that of most of their other games like "Twilight Imperium" and others. Also, I think they wanted to convey that TOI is more simple than complex, and that it is.

That being said, I would be the first to admit the "Tide of Iron" rules book could have been put together a little better, but all the information is there, though in different places at times. The rules regarding concealed squads is pretty clear, and I don't see anything omitted, just displaced, because when combined with other information in the rules and the Scenario Guide (page 3 for example), a clear picture begins to develop.

As for Chad's "Combat Commander: Europe" rules book, there are some major problems there too, but that is to be expected. Very few (if any) rules books are ever perfect. Especially miniature and/or board game rules books.
 
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Jesse LeBreton
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Just post in July and call it July instead of JuneV2
 
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Ray
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Lebatron wrote:
Just post in July and call it July instead of JuneV2


Even better, wait until the 4th of July

Someday I hope to get the game designer himself to have a look-see at our community generated RCD so he can give his suggestions thereby making it official.
 
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Jesse LeBreton
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Not only him but to increase your overall chances I'd suggest to PM all that you know of and implore then to take a look at the RCD and provide any feedback on any errors they may see. Hopefully not all of then will ignore this humble request. You can tell them that you are an ambassador so to speak for all of us here. You have my blessing to say so on my behalf.
 
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