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Doom: The Boardgame Expansion Set» Forums » Variants

Subject: Our house rules {playtested for at least 3 years} rss

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Vasilis
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There was a discussion in another thread and I was asked if I could post my home rules for DOOM+expansion so that other people can use them.

So there they are:

1} First of all, we ALWAYS use the expansion deck. Never ever use the basic deck. It's simply broken.

2} Create the whole board before playing. You gain more play time and less pauses.

3} Always use 3 marines. The game is really good when there are squad tactics available. Less marines means less tactics and more running. yuk


Let's talk about official mods:

Use Unending Pistols
Standardized Marines {2 armor, 3 bullets ammo, 9 health, pistol}
Well-Trained {draw 4 UAC cards, discard 1}
Variable turn order
2 Invader cards draw regardless of number of marines
expansion Dud card




Home rules for the Invader:

1} The Invader needs to discard cards whenever he wants to place an Invader from the expansion.

1 card for each Invader swap when placing them after a new area is revealed.

1 card total when he plays a spawn card and then he can change any or all of those depicted on the card with their counterpart.

Moreover, the Invader draws X-Y cards each time he frags a marine.

X is the number of the current total of frag the Invader has {including the one just inflicted}

Y is the number of frags the marine who was fragged had just before he died.

This balances out nicely the expansion Invaders since not a single one of them is equal or worse than his basic game equivalent.

For example let's say we have 3 marines.

Red has been fragged 3 times already.
Green has been fragged 1 time.
Blue is the tough guy and has no frags.

Overall, the Invader has 4 frags in total.

If the Invader manages to frag Red then he draws
X=5 since it's his 5th frag
Y=3 since Red has already been fragged three times before

X-Y = 5-3 = 2 cards for the Invader


If he frags Green he will get:
X=5
Y=1 since Green has already been fragged one time before

X-Y = 5-1 = 4 cards for the Invader


and finally if his 5th frag is for BLUE he will draw:
X=5
Y=0 since Blue had no previous frags.

X-Y = 5-0 = 5 cards for the Invader.

As you can see the Invader is getting bonus cards if he kills tougher {least fragged} marines and much less cards if he always frags the weaker one.
And remember more cards means more Invaders from the expansion.

Discarding cards adds a great element of hand management to the game AND balances the Invaders from the expansion with their basic game counterparts.



2} After drawing a card for Scatter put the card at the bottom of the deck instead of discarding it.

3} When the deck runs out, the marines are not fragged.

4} Only 1 card can be played per triggering condition. {so no double Charge or double Rage or Charge/Rage on the same monster for example}

5} Tick Blast allows Trites to move before detonation but they lose the Scuttle ability and their normal attack for that turn. {so that the Invader can actually plan something with his Trites instead of just waiting for it to happen. Also the Scuttle ability is removed for that turn so that the Invader cannot exploit it and use the Ducts to make easy Blast attacks to marines.}

6} Vagary is equivalent with Hell Knight. {remember that it requires a discard to place Vagary}

7} Rage played on a Maggot does nothing. {the wording is weird and this can actually be the way it was supposed to be in the first place but I write it as a home rule anyway}



General home rules:

1} Blowthrough attacks can be "walked" back to a previously targeted space making the ChainGun more useful and Mancubus a little bit more powerful. {he needs it}

2} Health packs, Megasphere, Berserk can be picked up like items. The player can use them AT THE BEGINNING of their turn only. So no run over item and insta-use it anymore.
Berserk lasts for two turns, the one that it is activated and the next one.
If a marine is fragged, he loses all these items.



Marine home rules:

1} Plasma Gun has Aimed instead of Accuracy 1.

2} Lots of UAC card changes for more balance:

Remove Lithe, Efficient Killer, 1 Marksman, 1 Survival Ops and 1 Special Ops from the deck. This removes duplicates and Lithe which is too situational to be any good.

Prepared = When the Invader player's deck is depleted gain back your 3 Cancel tokens.

Recon = In addition to the card's effect, you are completely immune to environmental damage, acid, flame, barrel explosions etc.

Medic = Replace the text with "When you choose to Ready, immediately heal 1 wound and place the Heal order."
Ignore the Heal order description from the manual and use this one: {When a player starts his NEXT turn with a Heal order in place he heals 1 more wound and all adjacent marines also heal 1 wound. Not above maximum of course.}

Marksman = Replace text with "When you use a weapon that rolls a yellow die, it gains +2 Range, +1 Damage"

Survival Ops = Replace text with "You start the game with 3 Survival tokens. When you respawn you gain these tokens back.
You may discard 1 Survival token when you receive damage in order to ignore 5 of those points of damage."
{remember that damage is the bullet holes that are shown on the dice}

Officer = Replace text with "You and all marines up to 3 spaces away gain +1 Range and +1 Damage, for all ranged attacks rolled during the marines turn.
You must always take the last turn every round."
{Yes, officer is nerfed. It's very powerful otherwise.}

Crack Shot = Replace text with " When attacking, you may choose to trace line of sight from any empty space that is adjacent to you. All of your non-Blast attacks gain +1 Range and Blowthrough."
{Crack shot was useless, now it's a really good card. You should see a Crack Shot marine with the new Plasma Gun. }



For those interested here are NEW UAC cards to use with their game:

Eagle Eye = You may choose to trace line of sight from any empty space that is adjacent to you, for the purposes of spawning and attacking.

Bad Tempered = You gain +2 Damage to your attacks if you have 2,3 or 4 wounds remaining. You gain +4 Damage to your attacks if you have 1 wound remaining.

Spotter = You may change your target after rolling for a non-seeking attack.

Cautious = You can change your declared action during your turn as long as your total movement and attacks during the turn do not exceed those allowed by your new action.

Shock Trooper = Once per turn, you may spend 4 movement points to move to any empty space in your line of sight.

Covert Ops = When you attack an enemy that did not have line of sight to you at the start of the current turn, you gain +2Damage. Other figures do not block line of sight for this ability.

Sixth Sense = The Invader player must have all Spawn cards in his hand revealed at all times.
Whenever the Invader player wants to spawn Invaders, you choose a legal spawn card that he must play.
{legal means that the invader can actually place all the monsters depicted on the card}

Fast = You always receive an extra 2 movement points each turn, regardless of which action you declare.

Stealth Ops = Invader placed by a spawn card cannot attack you on the turn that they are spawned.

Medical Bot = Gain a Medical Bot. It has Flying. Its speed is 3. When Medical Bot ends its movement, it can choose an adjacent friendly figure. That figure heals 1 wound.

Watcher Bot = Gain a Watcher Bot. Its speed is 4. The invader player cannot spawn any invader within line of sight of a Watcher Bot, just as if it were a marine.

Portal Bot = Gain a Portal Bot. Its speed is 4. Portal Bot cannot stop on occupied spaces and figures cannot stop on its space. At the start your turn, you may swap places with Portal Bot or move it to an empty space adjacent to you.

Cargo Bots = Gain 2 Cargo Bots. Their speed is 6. Cargo Bots can give or take items as marines, but each Bot can carry only one item.


General rules about the Bots:
They cannot die.
They don't have LOS
They don't block LOS
They cannot open/close doors.
They cannot carry items.
They can pass through Invaders and Invaders can pass through them.
They can coexist with marines or invaders in the same space.

...unless their card says otherwise.



As some of you may have noticed, a lot of the new cards are "borrowed" from Descent and adapted, playtested and worded for DOOM.

Some of them are originals created by me.

All of them are playtested for balance. The only one that I still have some doubts about balance {and please tell me your experiences with it if you use it} is Covert Ops. I have it in BOLD letters above.

I cannot guarantee 100% its balance. It is still under testing. Feel free to remove it if you find it too powerful.


That's it. Hope you like 'em and have a great time using them like I do.

Fell free to use them, thumb'em, comment, geekgold them or flag them if you dare!


EDIT 9/8/2010: Corrected the example of drawing cards when the Invader frags the marines.
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Keith Matejka
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A lot of good ideas here. Thanks for this!
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Guido Gloor
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Thanks a lot Your call whether you want to make a layouted file with it, it would definitely improve printability
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Tobias Moos
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Bowmangr wrote:
P.S.Should I post them as a File in the files section too?


that would be extremly awesome.
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Vasilis
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One other thing that I forgot to mention.

We never play campaign. We prefer the survival aspect of the game and not the Heroic part where 5 armor marines kill everything in sight and only Cyberdemons can hurt them.

I have never played a campaign game all these years {around five since DOOM was released} and of course these rules are heavily playtested only with marines that start with 2 armor and a Pistol and not 4 armor marines with BFGs.

In this case the rules may work but I cannot guarantee anything.

I believe that starting with a lowly Pistol and 2 armor is the way DOOM should be played. It's survival horror not High adventure with players killing hundreds of monsters who get in their way.

If you want that kind of gameplay, play Descent yuk not DOOM. cool
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Andrey
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Thanks!
I've tried to play Doom few times, but it seemed somewhat broken to me. Always nice to see playtested homerules
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Fede Miguez
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Well, i don't have comparable playtest for my houserules (haven't played Descent either), but i think they worked pretty good. Played 3 games so far, all as the invader, the first 2 scenarios with the base game deck (but do have the expansion).

I use a variant of unending pistols i read here: they don't waste ammo, but they need ammo to be used. Doesn't really change balance but feels a bit more realistic. Also puts a tough decision on marines when they have their last ammo: do i use the weak pistol or try to kill that monster with my better shotgun/machinegun and risk running out of bullets?
Also play with Standardized Marines and Variable turn order (that one should have been in the base game really). The 2 Invader Cards is a direct rule change of the expansion (not mod), just mentioning.

We had a different approach with marine cards. You keep the random skill draw (with some choosing) and tried to get all cards in a similar power level (and i quite good job there).
I used Task Force Training (marine get random cards, but assign them how they like among them) which let the marines build their team. This way variable marine cards power is not a problem since you can make the cards work pretty good by combining it with others that give them synergy. For example, Sniper is really annoying for the Invader when paired up with Alert. Some cards are hard to pair up (like Medic, which only works great with Tactician) but i still don't feel they need changes.

Btw, great idea on Prepared, will be using that one. Will be a great help for the marines during endgame if they get hit by a deck-frag.

I have read the card files you have posted, like some, some not. Good stuff overall.

I think that picking up Berserk tokens might be too powerful, but good for health packs.
I like the Tick Blast change and the Plasma Gun change, might use them.

The most important change i use is that the invader can't spawn monsters that haven't yet appeared on the scenario and that he can't spawn in the newest revealed area. This creates a sense of urgency for the marines to push forward to avoid spawning monsters. I found that the most problems for the marines advance is when there are spawns in front of them (this happened in the 2nd scenario in the big room, which we end up playing for an extra frag).
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Vasilis
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PePe QuiCoSE wrote:
Well, i don't have comparable playtest for my houserules (haven't played Descent either), but i think they worked pretty good. Played 3 games so far, all as the invader, the first 2 scenarios with the base game deck (but do have the expansion).


No wonder then why you allow your marines to mix and match their cards. They need all the powerful combos they can get to counter all the broken cards of the basic deck.

Quote:
I use a variant of unending pistols i read here: they don't waste ammo, but they need ammo to be used. Doesn't really change balance but feels a bit more realistic. Also puts a tough decision on marines when they have their last ammo: do i use the weak pistol or try to kill that monster with my better shotgun/machinegun and risk running out of bullets?


Hmm, little detail here. I wouldn't use it just to cut down on things that need to be remembered by the players. Of course if you've played with it a lot you will remember it by heart so it's OK.

Quote:
Also play with Standardized Marines and Variable turn order (that one should have been in the base game really). The 2 Invader Cards is a direct rule change of the expansion (not mod), just mentioning.


All these mods should be standard rules. I know about the 2 invader cards being official rule just didn't wanted to cause confusion by mentioning details about this. I STRONGLY recommend all players to use these official mods regardless if they are using my home rules or not.

Quote:
We had a different approach with marine cards. You keep the random skill draw (with some choosing) and tried to get all cards in a similar power level (and i quite good job there).


Thank you. We played a LOT of sessions to find the right balance but now I'm very happy with the results.
When we play I'm still looking out for cards that players avoid or choose every single time. This of course is a sign that the card is bad or too good respectively. meeple

It would be fun to post the cards that were tried and didn't make the cut so that you can see how much work {fun} has been put into these rules.

Quote:
I used Task Force Training (marine get random cards, but assign them how they like among them) which let the marines build their team. This way variable marine cards power is not a problem since you can make the cards work pretty good by combining it with others that give them synergy. For example, Sniper is really annoying for the Invader when paired up with Alert. Some cards are hard to pair up (like Medic, which only works great with Tactician) but i still don't feel they need changes.


I personally didn't like this idea when it was proposed by a friend since it meant that we would see the same combos over and over again. After a few games we have learned that card X always goes with Y and card Z always gets ignored if card A is in play etc.
It seemed too fixed and limited.

This of course is my group and my opinion. If you are having fun playing with the best combos all the time then by all means continue playing that way. That's the good thing about DOOM. It's customizable!

Quote:
Btw, great idea on Prepared, will be using that one. Will be a great help for the marines during endgame if they get hit by a deck-frag.


Prepared is a really good card but it loses effectiveness in really big scenarios. So this rule is meant to keep the power level of Prepared stable regardless of the scenario's length.

Quote:
I have read the card files you have posted, like some, some not. Good stuff overall.


You mean the Fragmaster file in the files section. This is a very old version of the home rules. Don't use it. Use the graphics only if you want and it fits with the rules posted above.

Quote:
I think that picking up Berserk tokens might be too powerful, but good for health packs.


After a few games under his belt your Invader {and hopefully your marines} will learn sooner or later that picking up Berserk and activating it using the official rules is bad for the marines and best for the Invaders! zombie
Remember the marine can only use his Fists and not his other weapons. A good Invader player will anticipate when the marine will pickup the Berserk token and place his Invaders accordingly.
Sometimes if the Invader places his Invaders in good spots, the Berserker marine will simply move around desperately trying to find an invader in melee range in vain, all the while taking back ranged fire. He can't do anything for 3 turns. He can only use his Fists, remember?

Not good.

Activating the Berserk when you want gives it a real powerful bonus and ensures that it will be used the way it is meant to be used. Killing big invaders easily with your bare hands. Not running around trying to get in melee range with some Imp...

It has a shorter duration though. 2 turns instead of the official 3.

And finally to balance it out, if a marine that carries the Berserk artifact is fragged, he loses it. So noone can pick up a Berserk and keep it for the last room to kill the biggest monster easily. The invader will try to frag him before that and make him use it earlier. meeple

Quote:
I like the Tick Blast change and the Plasma Gun change, might use them.


You should use them because both Tick Blast and Plasma Gun are very VERY weak otherwise. Plasma Gun is meant to be the second most powerful weapon in the game and instead it's better to keep your cells ammo and hope that you find a BFG later on. It misses a lot and spends the previous Cells ammo too easily. Totally not worth it.
The first time that you use your final Cell ammo with Plasma Gun and the Invader plays Dodge on it forcing you to roll 4 times the Y and R dice until you roll an X or at least an ammo symbol, you will use the home rule, trust me! laugh

As for Tick Blast, immediately blasting a Trite after activation AND being adjacent to a marine is almost impossible to setup. This card is dead weight in your hand if you don't use this home rule.

Quote:
The most important change i use is that the invader can't spawn monsters that haven't yet appeared on the scenario and that he can't spawn in the newest revealed area.


This makes it really easy for the marines IMHO. Spawning in front of the marines is the whole point of the Invader's play and the No1 priority for the marines to prevent from happening. THIS is more thrilling I believe.

Quote:
This creates a sense of urgency for the marines to push forward to avoid spawning monsters. I found that the most problems for the marines advance is when there are spawns in front of them (this happened in the 2nd scenario in the big room, which we end up playing for an extra frag).


Yes, indeed. Avoiding spawns in front of the marines path is the primary objective of the marine team. This is where the fun part of the game is for us and where the squad tactics come into play. If you cut this off, the game will look like a running game with the marines sprinting in front and hordes of invaders stumbling behind them.
Not my idea of DOOM honestly... soblue

Anyway, every group plays differently so a rule that makes sense for us, may make no sense for your group.

Just try the rules I've posted above once without changing them and see if your game gets better.
If not, fall back to your rules.

Either way and whatever you do, just do me a favor. DON'T play with the original deck. It destroys any sense of tactical gameplay IMHO.

The invader player doesn't have to think anything with this deck. Just play the uberbroken cards at the correct time and see the marines get wrecked mercilessly. NOT from the Invader player's tactical move though but from overpowered effect granted for free by the deck.
It's so cheap and mindless that makes the game totally random and not fun.

Marines talking 10 minutes to make the best tactical moves and place strategically their orders?
Just play Panic and wreck a 10-min plan in 2 seconds.

A marine wants to maneuver around invaders and pick up equipment?
Play It's a Trap! and frag him with 2 Demons. Take that! Ingenious play from the Invader player NOT!

See that Keycard that you traveled 3 areas and lost 3 frags to get to?

Just play Not Quite and make them travel these areas again to chase after he card and just before they reach it just play it again and return it to its original position. Great fun for the whole family huh? :gulp

I could go on and on about how horrible the basic deck is. Ambush, Sealed In. So broken.

It's a coincidence that not one of those cards are in the expansion deck while other like Surprise Attack, Dodge, Rage and Charge are in?
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Michael Denman
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We have our subset of rules we use, most of which are listed in the Expansion. I don't think we've made as many changes as you have.

So what do you mean about the broken base deck? What makes the expansion deck preferable?
 
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Guido Gloor
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Trump wrote:
So what do you mean about the broken base deck? What makes the expansion deck preferable?

There's been a thread in the base game forums, have a look:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4363161#4363161

Mostly, the base game deck cards are sometimes so strong that the invader player just has to draw them at the right time, and the marine players can't do much but sigh and die. Not fun for either player.
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Fede Miguez
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Bowmangr wrote:
I personally didn't like this idea when it was proposed by a friend since it meant that we would see the same combos over and over again. After a few games we have learned that card X always goes with Y and card Z always gets ignored if card A is in play etc.
It seemed too fixed and limited.
Well, the trick is that you have to make all the marines work, so sometimes you can't have uber combo on a marine without letting another marine being crap, you have to build the cards for the team to work, not just the marine. We'll see how it works on the long run, i know that the marines wouldn't have it any other way now (and me neither if i played as a marine!).

Quote:
After a few games under his belt your Invader {and hopefully your marines} will learn sooner or later that picking up Berserk and activating it using the official rules is bad for the marines and best for the Invaders! zombie

Oh, we played it that you can use other weapons but the bonus only works for Berserk. And wow, i thought official rules was just 2 turns, not 3.

About the invader (no) spawn and vanilla deck, take into account that both combined make sense. Marines can press forward but will get screwed by different cards along the way. But since they can avoid spawns the invader has to play cards early or face a lot of discards. So it has the "SURPRISE!" effect on the marines that i think was intended for the game to have originally but i can see that it might get old in the long run.
Btw, i am talking about marines playing scenarios for the first time, not playing already known scenarios. I think that is a big difference.

The only card i wholeheartedly agree and not use is Not Quite, that card was either poorly thought or not meant for some items. You can already punish the marines for picking up something during their turn, also punishing for not picking items is leaving them with no good choice.
 
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You've obviously put a lot of work into it. I've been trying to find the right balance as well, but I figured the problem was with the scenarios, not the rules (or cards etc), so I tried to look at it the other way.

I made a little statistical breakdown of what I considered 'balanced' scenarios (which are Episode 6, and the free scenario FFG published), and compared them to the other episodes. I'll publish the stats here some other time, but you'll see that the original scenarios are far more difficult than the ones from the expansion. Especially the amount of large invaders plays a big role in this.

Now, I'm willing to try out your variant, but can you assure me that these changes mean I can play the original scenarios in a balanced way? Because if you don't use the expansion invaders, the invader player keeps his hand size balanced, AND draws extra cards for frags he scores. This is set back by better skills the marines have, but still it seems that the original scenarios will be too tough to handle.
 
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I have over 3 years to play the original scenarios and of course the home rules were a lot different than what they are now.

Also, remember. I never play campaign. If you take a look at the scenarios you will see that they are made in such a way that it is almost impossible to play Scenario 4 or 5 starting with a Pistol and 2 armor only.

So just to be sure: If you are only interested in playing the original scenarios then don't try the above rules. Not because the rules have any problems but simply because the scenarios are created with a campaign mindset.

We are using unofficial scenarios and RanDOOM by Tibs to create scenarios and play with the home rules.

RanDOOM makes scenarios with a difficulty that works very well with the home rules above.

Basic game scenarios are NOT for single sessions. Especially scenarios 4 and 5. They are meant to be played as a campaign and require better equipped marines than the basic 2 armor and a Pistol loadout.

The rules worked with no problems with scenario 1 & 3.
Of course, I need not say that scenario 2 is flat out broken. Just ignore it.

As for this:

Quote:
Because if you don't use the expansion invaders, the invader player keeps his hand size balanced, AND draws extra cards for frags he scores. This is set back by better skills the marines have, but still it seems that the original scenarios will be too tough to handle.


If your Invader likes to spawn only basic Invaders in order to draw more cards with frags, then by all means let him do that. It's one more strategy that an Invader player can do. It's all about choices if you ask me.

You want to spawn only Trites, Zombies and Imps but have more cards available? You can do it.
You want to spawn better quality Invaders but not have a lot of surprises for the marines? Again you can do it.
You want to play more strategic and decide who is the best invader for each situation and try to maintain a good balance between a good hand and a good army of Invaders? You can do that too.

Or you can play with the official rules and spawn Revenants instead of Imps like there is no tomorrow!

Final word: Use the above rules with Scenarios I, III and the online scenario. They will work. Scenarios II, IV and V will NOT work because they are much harder.

IV and V are harder because they are campaign scenarios and Scenario II is impossible.

Just about the same is true for the expansion scenarios. Scenarios 6 and 7 are nice, then they start to get harder because it is assumed that the marines have better equipment.

Just try the rules with the online scenario and see how it goes.

Finally one other thing to remember is that these rules have been tested with a very experienced Invader player {over 50+ sessions} and some really veteran marines {at least 4 years of DOOM gaming}!

If a group is inexperienced with the game they may have unpredictable results at first until they can adapt. I'd be really interested to hear that someone has tried to play using the rules and some comments about what happened.

But use them as is, without changes or additional home rules, because any change may tilt the balance off.
 
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I don't remember names right now for unofficial scenarios but we haven't found any that were completely off or bad. {OK, maybe one or two}

The last two years I've been using RanDOOM for scenarios. {not always on-the-fly, sometimes I use it for making a preconstructed scenario for future use.}

I haven't tried the scenarios by Tibs but I trust his judgement although they are just variations of the original scenarios. Episode 3 I don't know but since he didn't have to base it on anything unlike Episodes 1 & 2 I trust his judgement on game balance.
He made RanDOOM after all! meeple
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Oops, forgot to add Efficient Killer in the cards to be removed section above. I just noticed that I had that removed from the UAC deck almost two years ago because it's overpowered.

I noticed it again these days while playing a Play by Forum session where one player had it with a Chaingun and never bothered with ammo. This spoils the tension and one of the more interesting aspects of the game which is ammo conservation.

Moreover ,it gives too much of a bonus to the most used weapons of the game, namely Shotgun, Machine Gun and especially Chaingun.

If you are not using weapons breakage rules then Efficient Killer is surely too powerful.

I've added it in the original post above.
 
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David Karl
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Bowmangr wrote:
Moreover, the Invader draws X-Y cards each time he frags a marine.

X is the number of the current total of frag the Invader has {including the one just inflicted}

Y is the number of frags the marine who was fragged had just before he died.

This balances out nicely the expansion Invaders since not a single one of them is equal or worse than his basic game equivalent.

For example let's say we have 3 marines.

Red has been fragged 3 times already.
Green has been fragged 1 time.
Blue is the tough guy and has no frags.

Overall, the Invader has 4 frags in total.

If the Invader manages to frag Red then he draws
X=5 since it's his 5th frag
Y=4 since this is Red's fourth frag

X-Y = 5-4 = 1 card for the Invader


If he frags Green he will get:
X=5
Y=2 since it's Green's second frag

X-Y = 5-2 = 3 cards for the Invader


and finally if his 5th frag is for BLUE he will draw:
X=5
Y=1 since this is the first frag for Blue

X-Y = 5-1 = 4 cards for the Invader.


I wanted to clarify this. You said the number of frags a Marine had just before this death, yet in that example you have 5 - 4 because this was his fourth death. If it was just before, it should be 3.

I interpreted this as, for example, the first time a Marine is killed, the Invader draws 1 card, since it is total frags (1) minus the number of frags on that Marine just before this death (0). Otherwise, the first frag means no bonus cards at all.
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Uncle Gus wrote:
Bowmangr wrote:
Moreover, the Invader draws X-Y cards each time he frags a marine.

X is the number of the current total of frag the Invader has {including the one just inflicted}

Y is the number of frags the marine who was fragged had just before he died.

This balances out nicely the expansion Invaders since not a single one of them is equal or worse than his basic game equivalent.

For example let's say we have 3 marines.

Red has been fragged 3 times already.
Green has been fragged 1 time.
Blue is the tough guy and has no frags.

Overall, the Invader has 4 frags in total.

If the Invader manages to frag Red then he draws
X=5 since it's his 5th frag
Y=4 since this is Red's fourth frag

X-Y = 5-4 = 1 card for the Invader


If he frags Green he will get:
X=5
Y=2 since it's Green's second frag

X-Y = 5-2 = 3 cards for the Invader


and finally if his 5th frag is for BLUE he will draw:
X=5
Y=1 since this is the first frag for Blue

X-Y = 5-1 = 4 cards for the Invader.


I wanted to clarify this. You said the number of frags a Marine had just before this death, yet in that example you have 5 - 4 because this was his fourth death. If it was just before, it should be 3.

I interpreted this as, for example, the first time a Marine is killed, the Invader draws 1 card, since it is total frags (1) minus the number of frags on that Marine just before this death (0). Otherwise, the first frag means no bonus cards at all.


Oops, you are right. This is what happens when you write at 02:00 hours with no sleep. blush

The correct answer is that the Invader always draws cards when he frags a marine.

I'll correct the numbers above.

Thank you for noticing!!! thumbsup
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Dillon Littlefield
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I just got the game on a BBG trade and I plan to play (hopefully with 3 other players) this Sunday. A lot of these rule changes make a lot of sense to me. I have no qualms about using modded rules (as you can see on my microbadge )

Do you think it's a good idea to play with them from the get-go with my new players?
 
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Dillosaur wrote:
I just got the game on a BBG trade and I plan to play (hopefully with 3 other players) this Sunday. A lot of these rule changes make a lot of sense to me. I have no qualms about using modded rules (as you can see on my microbadge )

Do you think it's a good idea to play with them from the get-go with my new players?


Hi, these rules were tested with the basic game plus expansion. If you only got the basic game then it's quite possible that you may further unbalance the game and I cannot guarantee that they'll work as intended.

Anyway, if you do have the expansion, then by all means start playing with these rules so that your gaming group doesn't have to learn and then re-learn the game.

If you do NOT have the expansion then as I said I cannot guarantee that they'll work. You do need to download the expansion rules though in order to use the MODS that it contains and are recommended. You can see which expansion mods I recommend in the rules post above.

You can easily play the game with the home rules but please remember that they were tested with the EXPANSION Invader deck and not the absolutely ultra-broken basic game Invader deck. If you see that they don't work or make sense {I can't think of a reason why they won't work with the basic game right now but I do have to tell you that I've never used them without the expansion} you may want to revert back to the official ruleset.

Have fun!
 
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Dillon Littlefield
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I have the expansion as well. So I'll plan on using the rules you have here (although maybe not all of the extra marine cards since they'll all be new to us anyways). I think I'll start off the the 1st scenario in the original campaign, but playing a game using doomGen or ranDoom is also tempting.
 
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Dillosaur wrote:
I have the expansion as well. So I'll plan on using the rules you have here (although maybe not all of the extra marine cards since they'll all be new to us anyways). I think I'll start off the the 1st scenario in the original campaign, but playing a game using doomGen or ranDoom is also tempting.


Let me take this opportunity to say that the home rules presented above were playtested with RanDOOM generated scenarios...
 
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Dillon Littlefield
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RanDoom it is.
 
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After playing a game last Sunday I have just a couple more questions.

1) What difficulty do you set on ranDoom? I played against 3 players on Marine (2nd) difficulty level and they lost pretty bad. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to play on Recruit level or if they simply didn't play well.

2) With your rules for using the expansion monsters, do you observe the unit cap the way the original rules do? Can I have, say, 2 blue mancubus and 1 blue cacodemon out at the same time or can I only have out the max of each 'equivalent' type of unit? Does it really matter?

Thanks
 
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Dillosaur wrote:
After playing a game last Sunday I have just a couple more questions.

1) What difficulty do you set on ranDoom? I played against 3 players on Marine (2nd) difficulty level and they lost pretty bad. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to play on Recruit level or if they simply didn't play well.


The one you used is the "normal" difficulty so to speak. Normal means that you can get a 50/50 chance of winning when playing with veteran players. If your players are newbies then it's perfectly normal for them to get crushed. Especially if it was their first time playing the game.

Feel free to use the 1st difficulty level for your initial sessions so that they can get more into the game's tactics. This game is a bit different from other similar games.

Quote:
2) With your rules for using the expansion monsters, do you observe the unit cap the way the original rules do? Can I have, say, 2 blue mancubus and 1 blue cacodemon out at the same time or can I only have out the max of each 'equivalent' type of unit? Does it really matter?


Yes, the cap is observed although you'll find with experience that it will matter less and less with each game to the point that you don't even need to count anymore.
The equivalent monsters count against the cap normally, they don't have their own cap. In other words each equivalent 'class' of monsters has a single cap limit. So about your example, only 2 Mancubi or 1 Mancubus and 1 Cacodemon or 2 Cacodemons are allowed at the same time on the board.
Moreover, the Invader player has to choose before the session starts exactly what invader type he has available from each equivalent class of monsters. In your example above, the choice of 1 or 2 Mancubus and/or Cacodemons has to happen BEFORE the game starts and the Invader player has to respect his choice throughout the whole session. Read the rules regarding game setup from the expansion manual which tells you exactly how to pick and choose monsters.


As for the game's difficulty, this game is notorious for its hard difficulty and it should be that way. My home rules were not intended to make the game easier for the marines. They were intended to make the game FAIR. Because sometimes the basic game's rules punish players with effects that are beyond their ability to control. They just happen and they die but not because of player skill but because of powerful killer cards for example.
The Invader player could play on autopilot {I mean playing without tactics, just randomly thrashing the players with card effects and keep throwing monsters on them} the whole session and still win.
With my rules I tried to make the Invader player's turn more interesting full of choices so that when he wins he does because of HIS skill and not because he happenend to draw the most broken card in his deck. The expansion deck has some really good cards but almost all of them require the Invader to plan because playing them otherwise they will fail or do minor damage.

The basic game's deck just kills the players all by itself. The Invader is just there to do the labor of actually rolling the dice and moving miniatures until everyone is dead from the cards! He reall doesn't have to think a lot. gulp


Having said that I also must warn you that this game is quite different from other similar games and most people that are conditioned to have a certain mindset when playing these games, utterly fail when playing DOOM. Maybe this happened in your session too.

Most games give the players a 'Hero' or similar character of epic proportions and present them with multiple minor 'enemies' which are there as obstacles for them to reach a bigger objective {a big bad boss monster for example} while getting better in order to have the necessary power level to actually beat the 'boss' obstacle.

DOOM is quite the opposite!!!

The marines have some power but not so much power. Even the lowliest monsters can hurt them badly.
They don't have to get better. In fact as the game progresses they get worst! They lose ammo, they lose frags, the deck runs out of cards, the spawns are piling up and they don't even know where they are going. They are not glorious heroes beating hundred of puny monsters while carving their way forward, they are poor and battered characters that NEED to get the hell out of there as fast as possible! This is totally TOTALLY different than playing a heroic game. You need a different mindset and a different strategy if you are going to survive.

Most newbie players think that their characters are quite good and that they are going to beat the monsters, clear every room before going forward and generally kick @$$. Couldn't be further from the truth. The marines should run in fear, try pick and choose to kill specific invaders that hurt their exit strategy and never look back. Please warn your players that this is not a heroic game of larger than life characters which rise to glory as all others that look like it. It is a SURVIVAL horror game and your players should try to survive and not prevail.
This is essential because it affects strategy and tactics. Experience will also teach that but I write this because many players get disappointed with this game early because of their wrong mindset and stop playing. It would be a shame if you stop playing because of this as others did. This game is very good although the broken basic game did offer a pretty bad mark in its reputation.

Hope that helps. meeple
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Thanks for that insight. I believe part of the reason they lost was because of their sense of completionism, like they wanted to clean up the room before moving on with the idea that it's better to deal with them now than to deal with them all later.

I'm a bit confused with your response here though.

Bowmangr wrote:
So about your example, only 2 Mancubi or 1 Mancubus and 1 Cacodemon or 2 Cacodemons are allowed at the same time on the board.
Moreover, the Invader player has to choose before the session starts exactly what invader type he has available from each equivalent class of monsters.


It was my understanding that this limit for unit type was on a per player basis. So with three players I could have up to 6 monsters of the 'Mancubus class'. However your response suggests that the limit is 2. Note there is only 1 of each color of Cacodemon.

Side note: I assumed the frag limit was 5. That's correct, right?
 
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