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Summoner Wars» Forums » Variants

Subject: Terrain Rules? rss

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Judd Jensen
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Just curious if there has been any work into creating some additional terrain rules for the game. This could be useful in changing up the map from game to game. For example:

Mountain: impassible square. Range units cannot shoot through this space.

Lake: impassible square.

Hill: Costs 2 movement points to enter. Increases attack value by 1 for any unit that is standing on it.

Swamp/bog: costs 2 movement points to enter. A unit in a swamp can only be injured on attack rolls of 5+. (edited to lower the movement cost from 3 to 2 based on feedback below)

Forest: costs 2 movement points to enter. Range units can no shoot through a forest (i.e. cannot shoot units on the opposite side of a forest, but could still shoot out of a forest or shoot into a forest). A unit in a forest can only be injured on attack rolls of 5+.

Anyone tried anything like this?

Judd

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Colby Dauch
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I have considered things like this but never tried it. If you do, let us know how it goes. May be worth us doing up some art and making a free .pdf download out of it.
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Brian Gee
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Sounds like a great idea, and I like your suggested terrains and effects, especially the hill and the forest. The only one I'm not sure about is the swamp. Let us know how it plays if you have a chance to test it. This would open up another level of creativity for Summoner Wars fans: scenario creation.
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Matthew Vanek
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A couple comments -- 5+ seems like it would make a champion in the terrain too powerful. I would lean toward 4+. Also, cards only have 2 movement points, so they couldn't enter the swamp as written.
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Judd Jensen
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I've just started playing around with the idea myself, by using the Battle Lore hex grids.

At the start of the game, but after initial unit deployment, each player can place up to 3 terrain hexes anywhere on the map that does not contain a unit and is not adjacent to a wall. When a unit enters a space with a terrain hex, the hex is placed top of the card art so both sides can tell the unit is standing in the terrain.

We've also tried it by adding random terrain to the map. Roll a D6 for how many terrain features are present. Then roll a D6 on the following chart to determine what terrain is present.

1: Mountian
2: Lake
3: Hill
4: Swamp/bog
5: Forest
6: Roll on this chart again but add two of the terrain type rolled to adjacent squares.

You then assign each roll of spaces a different number to create a grid system with which you can randomly determine which space the terrain is in. This random system takes more time than just letting the players choose for themselves, but it also forces the players to deal with less than ideal terrain set-ups.

Obviously you are sacrificing game balance for variety.

I've also been considering a Battle Lore scenario type system, with pre-set terrain and different starting set-ups for each side. Could call them "historical battles" or some such, but they would be easier to balance and still allow for more variety in games.

Judd

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Judd Jensen
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I'll agree that 5+ may be too powerful, but I wanted to make sure the terrain was actually "good enough" so that players would actually consider using it in their tactics. That said, after more play testing I might have to agree that 4+ is a more realistic benefit, especially for such terrain as forest and swamps which really don't provide the cover a fortress wall. Plus it would allow for a more "rare" type of terrain like a tower or fortress which could provide that additional level of protection.

As for the swamp, you are correct, it is pretty much impassible at the moment, so needs to be lowered to just costing 2 movement points to enter. As I said, I'm just starting to play around with the idea of using terrain, so any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Judd

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Matthew Vanek
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I definitely like the idea! What about roads that give move+1 if you use both your normal movement points to travel along them?
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Jason Cookingham
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Hello,

Interesting.

I have few thoughts.

1) One way to do this is to take the existing map-- and cut it in half.. in between each player's half is a two/three rows of this new terrain. That allows for a unique middle ground without having to worry about messing around with starting positions. This could make the game go a lot longer though, and it would definitely benefit the elves' long range.

2) Another way to do it would be to copy what the Tundra Orcs can do with the Ice Walls, and make similar variations.

For example-- the upcoming Jungle Elves could summon a jungle wall. Any jungle elf may walk through the wall as it if is an empty space.

3) There could be a champion unit that can introduce non-deck cards to the game.

For example: a champion that comes with two hill cards that are not shuffled into the deck. The controller can spend magic when the champion is in play to add a hill card to the board.
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Judd Jensen
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I definitely like the idea of roads (and their +1 to movement), especially for scenario play where you could really build a battle map around them.

Great addition!

Judd
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Chris Earls
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I kinda like it the way it is right now. My vision of this game is an epic battle between individuals and their summoned units, not whole armies. Still, I'd probably buy more if there was additional maps and stuff too.

Cool, bring it on.



Edit - As opposed to terrain, maybe obstacles? Like boulders, traps, etc...
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Judd Jensen
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I'm not saying the game isn't fantastic "as is", but every good game deserves an expansion or twelve...

And the beauty of terrain cards is that they fit into the existing map structure and can allow for some interesting pre-game tactical decisios, in addition to the possibility of really exciting scenarios that take place in the ruins of a city, in a swampy forest, or in a mountain valley with a large lake.

Judd
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screamingtruth wrote:
I have considered things like this but never tried it. If you do, let us know how it goes. May be worth us doing up some art and making a free .pdf download out of it.


Or perhaps a terrain reinforcement pack??? whistle
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Mark Chaplin
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Hills and forest cards would be a nice addition. Say a couple of each in one of the expansion packs.



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Judd Jensen
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My friends and I were playing around with more terrain ideas last night and came up with the following list of new terrain ideas. Some of the new terrain types are more exotic and powerful than those I listed yesterday and therefore may require some more balancing to get right. Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Wizards Tower: Costs 1 movement points to enter. A summoner on the tower at the end of his turn can take the top card from his discard pile and add it to the top of his magic pile.

Ruins: Costs 2 movement points to enter. A unit on this terrain may ignore the first wound they would suffer each turn.

Holy Shrine: Costs 1 movement points to enter. A unit on this terrain may heal one wound at the beginning of each turn. The shrine can only heal a maximum of 3 total wounds per game. "Undead" units may not use the shrines healing ability.

Graveyard: Costs 1 movement point to enter. Any "living" unit on this terrain suffers a -1 to hit on all attacks. Any "undead" unit on this terrain gains a +1 to hit on all attacks.


Judd







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Er heisst
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cookinjr wrote:

2) Another way to do it would be to copy what the Tundra Orcs can do with the Ice Walls, and make similar variations.

For example-- the upcoming Jungle Elves could summon a jungle wall. Any jungle elf may walk through the wall as it if is an empty space.


Now that is the best idea I think I've read on this forum! Incorporate walls into the individual concept of a faction... Colby, please listen to da man!

(Another humble out-of-the-head idea to make jungle walls (or any other walls of comparable factions) a bit more thematically "organic" and center the mutual dependency of woodsfolk and their woods in their strategy: Give some unit the ability to "replant/uproot" and, at the end of your turn, switch places with a jungle wall card, as long as both are on your side of the board. Or emphasise the sprawling, self-healing image of a jungle by giving them a "keeper of the bosk"-like champion, who has the ability to take a damage to heal one damage for all jungle walls or something similar.)

Just one side note to the occupation of terrain: As much as I like the concept, I see a practical problem when a unit card is stacked on top of a terrain card. If you don't remember the terrain card, you won't be able to spot it on the map and plan according to it. Not to overemphasise this point, but it sort of creates a bit of "hidden information" or necessitates you to memorise the board set-up. Yet, I can only see this becoming a problem in situations when there are too many terrain cards in the game - or when there are too many sorts of terrain cards so that you have problems remembering all the distinct effects of hidden cards.
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Jason Cookingham
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Warbringer25 wrote:
Wizards Tower: Costs 1 movement points to enter. A summoner on the tower at the end of his turn can take the top card from his discard pile and add it to the top of his magic pile.


This is an interesting idea, but I suspect it may be hard to implement.

You could do one of two set ups--
1) Each side has a tower, and then it becomes a house-rule as nobody in their right mind won't run to it.

2) You place one in the middle. This has the most potential for shaking up game play. Will someone risk putting their summoner in the front lines for a benefit? It wouldn't be of any benefit to the Elves and their Princess.

Ruins: This will really put the hurt on some decks. The Fallen Kingdom's commons have a lot of trouble putting out more than one damage (initially).

Holy Shrine/Graveyard-- I would hesitate to have cards work off of keywords that aren't there. You open the door for interpretation. Is Elut-Bal undead?

A general thought: Instead of the movement costs to enter a space... why not just say the units movement ends the moment they enter one of these special terrains. I think it would be a cleaner mechanic since we are seeing units with more movement than normal.
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Jason Cookingham
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Waldemar wrote:
As much as I like the concept, I see a practical problem when a unit card is stacked on top of a terrain card.


I think you bring up a good point, and there is an additional issue this creates. Right now- if you kill a unit, then you get the unit and all the cards under it for your magic pile. This causes an inconsistency. I think the less inconsistencies the better (but, that is a general pet peeve for me).
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Matthew Vanek
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Warbringer25 wrote:
My friends and I were playing around with more terrain ideas last night and came up with the following list of new terrain ideas. Some of the new terrain types are more exotic and powerful than those I listed yesterday and therefore may require some more balancing to get right. Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Wizards Tower: Costs 1 movement points to enter. A summoner on the tower at the end of his turn can take the top card from his discard pile and add it to the top of his magic pile.

Holy Shrine: Costs 1 movement points to enter. A unit on this terrain may heal one wound at the beginning of each turn. The shrine can only heal a maximum of 3 total wounds per game. "Undead" units may not use the shrines healing ability.


I like the idea behind both of these, but if they are going to always work (without a die roll of some sort), I think you should have to trigger it by giving up an attack from the occupying card.


Warbringer25 wrote:
Graveyard: Costs 1 movement point to enter. Any "living" unit on this terrain suffers a -1 to hit on all attacks. Any "undead" unit on this terrain gains a +1 to hit on all attacks.


I agree with what was said above about adding keywords. You might just give the bonus to "fallen kingdoms" and leave it at that. Cool faction specific terrain though.


Warbringer25 wrote:
Ruins: Costs 2 movement points to enter. A unit on this terrain may ignore the first wound they would suffer each turn.


Too strong. I would go with "When an occupying unit is dealt one or more wounds for the first time each turn, roll a die. On a result of 4 or higher, the unit may ignore one wound."







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