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Dominion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Moat Clarification rss

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Ben Lott
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Do you draw 2 cards when you reveal the Moat card as a reaction? Or do you only use it to draw 2 cards when it is played as an action card on your turn?
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Chris Copac
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Draw 2 when used as an action, NOT as a reaction.
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Jeremy Volk
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copax wrote:
Draw 2 when used as an action, NOT as a reaction.

Yep.
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Ben Lott
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OK. I didn't feel like it was clearly worded in the rules and it sounded like any time you played the card it allowed you to Draw 2. I'll accept that I was mistaken.

Thanks for the speedy response.
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David Bell
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The reason you don't draw cards when you use moat as a reaction is that you're not actually playing moat, you're just revealing it. Stuff happens when you reveal moat that is different than the stuff that happens when you play moat.
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Chipacabra wrote:
The reason you don't draw cards when you use moat as a reaction is that you're not actually playing moat, you're just revealing it. Stuff happens when you reveal moat that is different than the stuff that happens when you play moat.
Which is true of Secret Chamber as well. It does one thing when you reveal it, a different thing when you play it.
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Chris Copac
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Not to threadjack, but I just wanted to thank people for the thumbs. I'm new to this community and getting the chance to help someone felt like in some part I was helping give back to the community.

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled Dominion discussions

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Bence Tamás
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I am sorry, but I would also have a question concerning the moat, but I wouldn't like to waste a new thread for it, I also didn't find a topic concerning this.
My question is, isn't moat a bit overpowered? Sure it is the only way to stop attacks, but here is my experience: Just bought the game, played bunch of times with my brother, so it is 2 player exp. (I can imagine attack cards work better with more players, but 4 players tops still seem too few...). My brother buys attack cards, I have around 4 moats, and he never seems to catch me without one, of course this means, that while I accumulate wealth and points, he doesn't. Maybe it is bad luck, but it somehow doesn't seem so to me. Anyone had same experience?
My final question is, is there a way to make the game more offensive, other than banishing the moat? Is there an expansion with say a siege card, that says, if you have this card in your hand it nullifies the effect of the moat?
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Greg Filpus
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Remember that when you reveal a Moat, the part of the card that affects your brother (The +2 Coins for Militia, +2 Cards for Witch, etc.) still happen. So he should still get some benefit from the attack, just not as much as being able to hurt you as well.

On the other hand, the Moat isn't a very good card to have other than its defense function- +2 Cards can hurt you if you draw Actions with it that you don't get to play, so it can clutter up your deck if you buy too many. In some sets, the Moat is valuable, in others there are other ways to deal with attacks. (For instance, using Chapel or Remodel to get rid of Curses when the Witch is in the game, or the Cellar to cycle through them)

Even if the Moat will totally destroy a deck with attacks, it can still become a rock-paper-scissors mechanic: a Moat deck beats an attack deck, and an attack deck beats a deck without Moats, but a deck that doesn't bother with Moats will have an advantage over a deck with Moats if there aren't attacks in play. Adapting to your opponent's strategy is a key to Dominion, especially in the two-player game.
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Bence Tamás
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Yes that is true for most attack cards, but what about the thief for instance? As far as I can remember it has no other effects other than stealing money.
Anyway, I feel that it is still too easy to abolish the side effect, of moats, with cellars and stuff like that, but I suppose I just haven't played enough yet, at least not with players more experienced players.
Oh, and one of my questions still stands: Is there an attack card, maybe not in the basic game, but in the expansions, that negates the effect of moats?
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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General_Specific wrote:
Yes that is true for most attack cards, but what about the thief for instance? As far as I can remember it has no other effects other than stealing money.
Anyway, I feel that it is still too easy to abolish the side effect, of moats, with cellars and stuff like that, but I suppose I just haven't played enough yet, at least not with players more experienced players.
Oh, and one of my questions still stands: Is there an attack card, maybe not in the basic game, but in the expansions, that negates the effect of moats?


Masquerade, Possession, and Swindler Smugglers feel like Attack cards but they aren't and can't be negated through a Moat.

Dominion is a more 'formal' card game than a lot of people are used to. The card must say "Attack" for the Moat to work as a "Reaction" card. Once you accept that cards in Dominion in nearly every case mean exactly what they say, your sessions will go a lot easier. There are a few card interactions that need to be worked out or clarified, but so far they have been, either in the FAQ that's in the rules or here on BGG.
 
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Matt E
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jschlickbernd wrote:
Masquerade, Possession, and Swindler feel like Attack cards but they aren't and can't be negated through a Moat.

Swindler is definitely an Attack card. Are you thinking of Tribute?
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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LastFootnote wrote:
jschlickbernd wrote:
Masquerade, Possession, and Swindler feel like Attack cards but they aren't and can't be negated through a Moat.

Swindler is definitely an Attack card. Are you thinking of Tribute?


Nope, Smugglers, but Tribute will work as an example too. I fixed my post, thank you.
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Tim Stellmach
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General_Specific wrote:
My question is, isn't moat a bit overpowered? Sure it is the only way to stop attacks...

This isn't even true. For any given attack, there are often effective countermeasures other than reaction cards. I've certainly played games where there were attacks, and Moat was available, and yet it wasn't worth buying Moats because my chosen strategy just wasn't particularly vulnerable to the attacks in question.
 
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