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All-time Baseball» Forums » Reviews

Subject: Is "All-time Baseball" the be all end all? rss

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Reno Thompson
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This is my first review (and post) so bear with me please.

First of all, this game is a re-produced modified game by a single individual (Bruce Linsey) and over all is faily good (7.6). Had to just raise my score up from (6.5) past Strato dispite quirks below. It's fun,feels like baseball, and works well.

The components are of a quality slightly better then that of a "Winsom Game" which is on the low side but this downside ends up being a plus
because I did not agree with Bruce"s defensive and speed ratings of about half the players. Thus I was able to edit the ratings becase of the lower quality of the player cards. The game charts are well done and on a single side so that one isn't constantly fliping back and forth(big plus). The game comes in a nice box with a baseball diamond,4 well laminated charts,6 pitcher batting cards,56 card sleeves,3 special dice,3 player pawns,2 pitcher endurance cubes,a pad of score sheets(copyable),and most important the 500 all-time career rated players.

other comments; Of the 500 players there are only about 30 that I would have opted out for 30 others, but all the big names are here but not all Hall of Famers (I would opted out a few there also though).

Re-do ; This game is almost everything that "Superstar Baseball" by AH should have been. The changes Bruce has made in game play are far superior to the game play of Superstar(which I owned plus expansions).
After 26 games of play I can say one of the neatest things added to the game is the test of the batter to beat out an infield grounder for a base hit(1?). The tension for this play is just like at the park or equivalent to a maybe homer in Strato's split reading for a homer.

As far as having to re-rate defensive ratings of some of the players let me first say that I have had to do the same thing on SOM basic cards. In SOM advanced defensive game players are rated for both range and fielding which works well, but the SOM advanced game has just grown out of control and become ridiculous with all it's symbols and markings.
Therefore when I play SOM I have always used the basic game but had to modify the ratings of some players.Exp; a 2nd baseman with "1" range and a high error rating would still be rated a "1" on the basic side.I would compromise his rating to a "2" because of the high errors since the basic system didn't. I have noticed SOM has started to do this more,but not enough. So, what does all this have to do with Bruce's rating's? Well ATB appears to have done a similar thing. Exp: Joe Morgan's def=1 (0 being horrible - 5 being great). Now,I could go on and on about the objective subjectivness of defensive ratings but in the end it's all opinion. Even in the book Total Basball their FR (Fielding Rating) could be argued and I would be glad to argue why it just doesn't entirely work. But anyway I used Total Baseballs FR in reviewing every ATB players rating. Speed too. Morgan's defense went from 1 to 2 although my heart says 3.

Speed: Best example I can show is Ray Chapman rated "5" (Lou Brock/Ricky Henderson speed). Nooooo-waaaay! Chapman 1 time sold 52 bases w/other seasons of 36,30,29,24,and lower. I gave Chapman a "3". Yes,I considered his at bats + bb's and so forth.

All in all I can say this game is one I enjoy dipite all the work I had to put into it.(a- cuting the 500 cards out, b-rerating the players def/spd vs Total Baseball). The body of the player cards seem acurate(exp;Ruth has the highest HR pct on his card,Speaker is high in 2b's and so forth) which is very important. The game is fun, managing can make a differance and the best part is that it is not the same old 50/50 split between pitcher and batter. In this game as in Statis-Pro you have to get past the pitcher card to get to the batters card. Only in ATB aka SSBB it does a better job than Statis-Pro of "screening" by the pitcher and I always prefer dice than fast action cards.

I no, I ramble, I hope you can get some benefit from this short review, God willing.

I will end with pros and cons.

CONS; a) You gotta cut the cards, they're not even perfed.
b) Def ratings & speed ratings a little off.
c) a & b and it cost 40 plus shipping.

PROS; a) one of the best basball systems got a major tune-up.
b) even though B above the statistical body of cards apears sound
c) its got alot of chrome w/out complexity in a subtle way.
d) where else r u going to have Many Ramirez square off against
Tony Mullane?
e) It's just plain fun!


Look for my coming sessions post on a 24 team season I've started.
thanks for your time - Reno

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Doug Palmer
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Not a bad review. I'd be curious though how it matches up to some of the other good baseball games out there, not just AH. Is it "better" than Strat-o-Matic, APBA, Pursue the Pennant? Is it more accurate? an easier/harder play? More/less stat driven?

I love sports themed board games. My collection is probably 1/2 sports themes. This one looks like a necessary addition
 
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It's just a ride...
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I would think that any system would struggle to be better than Pursue the Pennant. In my opinion the best baseball game ever.
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Reno Thompson
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For me everything must be considered to be my favorite baseball game.
Head to head I would rate baseball strategy as the best.
Solitaire for mini leagues for now I would go with SOM basic (my customized version). Because of the sheer number of teams available.
I have owned and played all of the following one time or another.

APBA- Did not like, cumbersome,long and tidious.5

PTP - The most accurate if that's all your looking for, but again
long and tidious. The best stat sheet by far. I Always use PTP
stat sheets for all baseball games. 6

SOM - Still the king of table top ball when support(teams),playability
and time considered. 7.5

Timetravel - fun but not to sure about accuracy. Still I will not part
with my copy. Ever. And it's worn out. It has been newly
made and available. 7
Baseball Strategy 3m/AH - Head to head can't be beat but not good for
major league accuracy. 6.5

Baseball Classic- could be my favorite for balance of ease of play,
time to play,and good looking cards if it were not
stat accuracy problem thats to much to discuss here.
I have the 16 team Matrix career set. 5.5

AH Supperstar BB- card allstars(96) for the old 3m/Sports Illustrated
version. 5

All-time Baseball - as reviewed 7.5 but may go up past SOM. I'll know
in about a 60+ days after my play of the AL east
play of NYY,BOS,CLE,DET,BAL/Browns,TOR.
 
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Reno Thompson
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Only non-stat driven I have is Harry's Grand Slam and AH BB Strategy.
 
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John Nash
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Guess I'll have to wait for your replay to end before I get the answer to the question you posed in your header. Changing the defensive and speed ratings isn't a huge minus. I have issues with almost every season and subjective ratings. Especially when it comes to players you really like/dislike. Don't be so hard on Chapman. The only man killed during a MLB game is deserving of a speed of 4,

Just out of curiosity (there is no right or wrong answer to this) why do you prefer dice rolling to fast action cards? Why is a system that goes through the pitcher rating first superior to one that gives = weight?

Superstar Baseball was NOT a good baseball game. It did not have the "feel" of baseball, with far too few managerial impact points and a far too simplified defensive component. The AH successor game of Statis Pro baseball was in all ways superior. While not having the huge multiplicity of difference that APBA had, it was a significantly easier game to pick up and play while conveying the Batter vs Pitcher tension effectively. I would be interested in your comparison between the two games.

I look forward to hearing your results.
 
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Michael Debije
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sctreno wrote:

PTP - The most accurate if that's all your looking for, but again
long and tidious. The best stat sheet by far. I Always use PTP
stat sheets for all baseball games. 6


Long? 30 minutes, tops.
 
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Darrell Hanning
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Hmmm. When single, I played probably 300 or more games of Strat-O-Matic, maybe two dozen of APBA, and less than that of StatisPro. SOM always struck me as the best combination of all elements - ease of play, statistics, etc.

BTW, Joe Morgan was pretty good on artificial turf - not so good on grass. But then, he didn't play on a lot of grass, during his era. (He was still on the Astros, when I started following baseball.) This was true of a lot of infielders, though.
 
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Doug Palmer
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mi_de wrote:
sctreno wrote:

PTP - The most accurate if that's all your looking for, but again
long and tidious. The best stat sheet by far. I Always use PTP
stat sheets for all baseball games. 6


Long? 30 minutes, tops.


I was going to comment. Yeah, PtP is a fast game where 30-60 minutes tops is the norm.
 
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Reno Thompson
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my bad. I should have been more clear. What I meen is long for a ttbbgame. 40-50 min.w/stats. SOM/ATBB/BBClasic I can play & stat in 20-30 min unless extra innings. All I can say is for me PTP although the most accurate was more work for the joy, a little longer and also a little more costly than I wanted.

BTY I failed to mention Statis-Pro which I thought worked well, but also found it a little more fiddly and longer than my favorites. 6.0
 
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Jim Dietz
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sctreno wrote:


APBA- Did not like, cumbersome,long and tidious.5



Long and tedious? Roll the dice, look at number, look at chart.
Next batter. Repeat until end of game.

A game plays in 10-15 minutes.
 
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Reno Thompson
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No stat driven bb game plays in 10-15 min w/stat recording. Tedious because of the huge charts that need to be flipped back and forth. Plus APBA was boring because most all the cards were so similar.Exp: 11,22,33,44,55,66 were almost always good results for all players as I recall. But then again I got rid of my APBA games long ago.
Some people are like the old AH game boxes that exaggerate about the times to play a game. You could almost always double the time it said that it took to play (after experience). I just finished a game of ATB w/complete records and it took 35 min. Most other games would have taken longer except SOM and Baseball Classic. Understand, by longer I meen 5-15 min depending on the game. But,hey maybe it's just me.
 
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Jim Dietz
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Reno,
I'll stand by my assertion that I can play an APBA game in 15 minutes against someone and have the stats kept. (But conservatively, I've played 2500 games of APBA Baseball over the years)

Rolling the dice and looking at a chart is NOT more tedious than rolling dice and figuring out whether the pitcher's or hitter's card is consulted. Different? Certainly? Simpler? Probably? More accurate? Debatable. But not tedious.

I just don't see how writing F9, F9, K takes up that much time.

And personally I like knowing that some dice rolls are good. Random placement of results makes it hard to root for the dice--could you imagine if D+D had you hit on a 1-4, 9, and 15 rather than 15+?
 
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Reno Thompson
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Compare this situation as example;

Men on 1n3rd Mussinna on the mound. T,williams @ the plate...


ATB : roll of 22 look @ Mussinnas card in front of me "so" note k on stat sheet........2 sec.

APBA : roll say 22 look at batters card get number, now flip big bulky (18 x 18 inch?) chart for runners on 1n3rd to find result.....maybe 4sec.

need I say more.... Yes... 75pct of the sesults of this game (ATB) and 3 other games I know give the sesults right on the cards. APBA,one constantly has to refer to the charts for the sesult after getting a number off the player card.

A 1 step process vs a 2 step process.

Thanks be to the forethought of Bruce Linsey (ATB) when he made his game he purposfully made the (25% used) 4 result charts single sided.
As i recall APBA's charts are double sided,big,cumbersom and a "TEDIOUS" pain in the rear end to haddle nearly every play.

But then that's just my personal opinion.
 
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Michael Rumaley
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Shauneroo wrote:
I would think that any system would struggle to be better than Pursue the Pennant. In my opinion the best baseball game ever.

Seemed perfectly clear from the review that ATB and PtP intend to fill very different niches.


 
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Bruce Linsey
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Thanks, Reno, for the thoughtful review, and to everyone else for your comments. All-time Baseball was/is a labor of love. I have a small group of friends with whom I play periodically (draft teams and have a weekend league once a year). Glad to see others are enjoying it too.
 
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