My Daughter and I are playing yet another Campaign Game; once again the dissatisfaction with the Character Combat system has arisen, this time with a passion.
I gave up in disgust with devising a D&D-type mechanic; coming up with Character attributes/numbers would have been a work of decades of research (and a great deal of hair-tearing and screeching as well).Still, the AD&D mechanic might be better received by Tolkien scholars and devotees. I still remember a bit of how the system worked and it seems to garner the best feedback as a Character system....
Working out such a system is definitely a project I need to hand off to somebody else; perhaps another aging Grognard, ex-AD&D player, Tolkien Acolyte, retired, looking for another project for a Noble Cause.
I'd appreciate suggestions my Brethren
Taking another crack at the windmill, Mr. Quixote?
The individual combat in the GMT game RAN works okay. Each side rolls a die, add the result to the combat value, compare the sum, the lower takes a hit, if the higher is twice the lower, take two, etc. The volitility level can be tweaked with 4- or 8-sided dice. R. Berg co-designed this one, too, ironicly.
Sorcery still needs to be worked out.
I suspect more elaborate rules for character combat would bog the game.
I dunno what to do about the meatgrinder queue issue.
The meatgrinder effect is the most annoying part to me.
In the game I'm playing with my Daughter, already Aragorn+Anduril and Gandalf+Glamdring have chopped up attacking Nazgul like so many rabbits; nothing left but a pile of tattered black cloaks.......not exactly the last word in personal combat realism.
Have another go at the windmill, I 'spose.
The meat grinder effect appears when chances to hit from both sides are very different. For example in fight between Gandalf the Gray and Naazgul, wile using d6 in rules from Ronald’s post, chances to deal one wound look like this (draw = both sides damage):
Hit ratio: 3 for Gandalf
When Gandalf has elvish sword:
Hit ratio: 5,5 for Gandalf (over 83% greater)
This means, Nazguls almost have no chance to win with Gandalf or with Aragorn. To reduce meat grinder effect the hit ratio must be lower.
My mechanic has few simple rules.
1. To deal one wund, character has to get 10 points of Effective Attack. (Effective Attack = Combat + Morale + d6, for now…).
2. 1 on d6 – always fail to deal damage
3. 6 on d6 – re-roll
Using this rules, chances to hit in combat between Gandalf and Nazgul will look like this:
Hit ratio: 2 for Gandalf
When Gandalf has sword:
Hit ratio: 2,5 for Gandalf (only 25% greater)
Different example is duel between Balrog and Pippin.
Hit ratio: 5 for Balrog
So with this rules even Pippin has greater chance to win with Balrog, than Nazgul with Gandalf in rules from Ronald’s post.
4. Add sorcery to Effective Attack (Effective Attack = Combat + Morale + Sorcery + d6)
This rule gives greater chance to deal damage to characters with sorcery, but when both characters can utilize sorcery, almost nothing changes (but it’s greater probability to deal more than 1 wound). Let see:
Hit ratio: 1,93
When Gandalf has sword:
Gandalf(8-11): 83,33% (never will be grater, because 1 is always fail)
Hit ratio: 2 for Gandalf of course
5. Each 2 wunds decrease Combat value and number of points, which are needed to deal damage by 1, but Combat must not be lower than 1.
So if defender has 2 wounds, Effective Attack must be at least 9 to hit, but when defender has 4 wunds EA=8 will be enough. Good to konw - 1 wound do nothing, 3 wunds works like 2 and 5 wund works like 4. Effective Attack = Combat + Morale + Sorcery + d6, but Combat is at least 1 and Morale never decrease. It is needed to keep high ability to fight. With these rules Effective Attack is between 2+d6 (Saruman with 2 or more wunds and 0 from Sorcery) to 14+d6 (Gandalf the Gray with 3 points from Sorcery, sword, ring and Galadriel’s Light in fight with Shelob).
6. Effective Attack = 15 deals 2 wunds, 20 = 3 wunds, 25 = 4 wunds, 30 = 5 wunds, 35 = 6 wunds.
These are all rules. I think they are balanced enough.
Do Nazguls win combat with Gandalf+Glamdring and Aragorn+Andruil? It isn't easy, but they have chance now .
- Last edited Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:27 pm (Total Number of Edits: 11)
- Posted Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:15 pm
That's quite an analysis and alternative rule set, Arek.
Maybe a 10-sided die roll would level out the probabilities just as well.
My only critique is the "re-rolling the die" rule.
I think Rob Johnson points out the problem that a few strong can defeat many average fighters every time.
Do you think your solution will work for that?
Not re-roll, but "additional roll" should be
That's why Pippin has 16,66% chance to hit Balrog (1+3+d6(6)+addditional d6=minimum 10).
When 10d is used (draw = both sides damage):
Hit ratio: 2 (good)
Hit ratio : 2,8 (quite good)
There's only one problem. When you add magic to these roll, Nazgul will have no chance again. So magic still needs to be work out (as you said).
Magic is build into my rules and is ballanced.
The problem isn't strong vs average, but better vs weaker. 7 vs 5 is the same as 5 vs 3 and 8 vs 5 is the same as 7 vs 4 etc. (in your mechanic always; in mine only some times). You have to reduce chance to hit of stronger character and improve cth of weaker character. The stronger one will have more chances to win always (becouse he's stronger ), but he won't win every time.
5th point of my mechanic is very importent, becouse stronger character probobly will first deal damage. Weaker chracter must not be more weak than he is as long as possible.
In my last game Gollum killed Frodo, Gandalf+Glamdring killed Gollum, but he took damage and Shelob killed him. Than Aragorn took Glamdring. Eventually Lord of Nazguls killed Aragorn, but he almost died. It was fun
- Last edited Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:30 pm (Total Number of Edits: 3)
- Posted Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:57 pm