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Subject: Does balrog help an relieving army? rss

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A van Poppel
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Expansion game:

Balrog is in Moria, he is alone, and co-exists with an FP army,
Now a Shadow army attacks the FP army in Moria.

Does the balrog fight with the Shadow army? If the FP army is in the provence? And/or if it is in the stronghold>
 
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Jon Horne
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Characters and Leaders have to be with an army in order to provide their benefits. Furthermore, the attacking army does not actually move into the region attacked until the battle is over. So, in your situation, the Free Peoples could fight a normal battle in the field to prevent the Balrog from aiding the Shadow army, but if they retreated to the Stronghold, then in subsequent siege battles they would feel the full fury of the Balrog since both he and the Shadow army would be in the Moria region.

As a side note, it is almost always better to make your opponent waste troops and dice on a siege than to fight them in the field. Yours is an interesting situation, since it is probably better for the Free Peoples to fight outside the Stronghold to deny the Balrog's bonuses - which are arguably the best ones in the game.
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magic gecko
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AxleKerrigan wrote:
it is almost always better to make your opponent waste troops and dice on a siege than to fight them in the field.


This may be true for the standard game where the Free lose every Seige battle and are just trying to suck dice out of the shadow.

This is not true if trying to win a FPMV.
Fighting a field battle can be the only way to win, especially if you are typing about the Balrog.


AxleKerrigan wrote:
Yours is an interesting situation, since it is probably better for the Free Peoples to fight outside the Stronghold to deny the Balrog's bonuses - which are arguably the best ones in the game.


"The Balrog" means you are playing with seige engines.
Seige Engines are VERY BAD NEWS for Blue pieces inside Red strongholds.
Seige Engines are why
AxleKerrigan wrote:
it is almost always better to make your opponent waste troops and dice on a siege than to fight them in the field.
is not true

Allowing the Shadow to grind you down inside a Red Stronghold is so depressing. Especially since it has often been such a struggle to get it in the first place.
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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Just to clarify what Magic is so correct about:

The Free Peoples CANNOT build defensive Siege Engines in captured Shadow Strongholds but the Shadow is allowed to build offensive Siege Engines when trying to recapture lost Shadow Strongholds.
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A van Poppel
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Veldrin wrote:
Just to clarify what Magic is so correct about:

The Free Peoples CANNOT build defensive Siege Engines in captured Shadow Strongholds but the Shadow is allowed to build offensive Siege Engines when trying to recapture lost Shadow Strongholds.


That's one to remember , for sure.
 
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Jon Horne
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magic gecko wrote:
This is not true if trying to win a FPMV.

I intended this to be covered under the "almost always" clause, but maybe it was too strong a term. Perhaps "usually" would be a better adverb?

In the games that I have played (which, granted, number fewer than fifty), the Free Peoples player "almost never" has a realistic shot at a military victory. When he does, it's because the Shadow player is leaving himself wide open. The threat of a Free Peoples military victory does keep the Shadow from overextending himself, but it is pretty rare in my experience for the Free Peoples to actually achieve it.

If the Shadow does leave himself vulnerable to losing two Strongholds, it is either because of poor play or because Frodo is nearing Mount Doom and the Shadow is desperate for a quick military victory. If this is the case and the Shadow turns and goes all-out to reclaim a lost Stronghold, why not dunk the Ring and have done with it?

As far as the scenario goes whereby a Shadow player does try to recapture a Shadow Stronghold, it realistically takes 1 or 2 dice to move an army to the Stronghold, 1 to muster a siege engine, and at least 1 more to recapture it. And that's ideal. I've rarely played a game of WotR where the Shadow was so far ahead that he could afford to spend 4+ dice retaking a Shadow Stronghold and still manage a win.

Furthermore, how are 5 defenders in the field different from 5 defenders in the Stronghold facing a siege engine? In each case, both players hit on a 5 or 6. The only difference is that it takes 2 more dice to win the Stronghold battle. There are some battle cards that are only usable in a siege, but not that many. Unless Frodo was corrupt as all get-out, as the Free Peoples I would still probably try to stall the Shadow’s war machine with a prolonged siege than fight them in the field and then try to capture a second Stronghold with the survivors. And if I already had two of them and just needed to hold on, then the siege is the obvious choice.

In summary, are there instances when a Free Peoples player would want to slug it out in the field? Certainly, the scenario put forth in original post of this thread is an example. However, I stand by my assertion that it is unusual for a Free Peoples player to fight a field battle with 5 or fewer defenders when a Stronghold is available.
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