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Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage» Forums » Rules

Subject: Overrun vs Retreat Penalty: Precedence rss

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Rich Crook
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The battle is in Cosa with the attacking army entering from Tarquini. Carthage is defending and Rome has another army in Faesulae with no Carthaginian CUs present there.
Pisae contains a Roman PC and one Roman CU. Hannibal is defeated and must retreat with Pisae being the only option. Hannibal commands five CUs after defeat.

Question: Does the Overrun Rule 8.2 take place before the attrition penalty Rule 12.1?

(If attrition takes place first, then Hannibal may not overrun the single Roman CU as he would only have four CUs left to command!)

I say that it does as: a Retreat is a type of Movement so general Movement rules are executed before sub rules are. 12.1 seems to emphasize that the first thing that must happen is that a battle must be resolved first. Moreover, the attrition penalty is taken due to an enemy PC which are themselves subordinate to CUs. PCs trace to friendly CUs under isolation and not the other way around.
Thoughts?
 
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Anthony
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According to rule 15.3 "...A force retreating into a space containing enemy Cus will lose an additional CU for each enemy CU in the space." No overrun occurs.

Retreats are not movement.
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Eddie B
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You must be using the AH rule book because 8.1 is something different in my Valley Games rulebook. Anyhow, I don't think you can overrun during a retreat (with the chaos and all). Rule 15.3 (Valley games, on retreats) says:

"A retreating force (Army or CUs) must lose one additional CU for each space it enters that contains an enenmy PC or non-friendly tribe. A force retreating into a space containing enemy CUs will lose an additional CU for each enemy CU in the space."

Eddie
 
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Rich Crook
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Oh snap! Yeah I see what you are saying. Movement is an action wherein a general is activated to move a stack of CUs. Retreat is totally separate.

Thanks!

Yeah Eddie B, the AH rulebook.

Oh, but if it is not movement then a battle with that CU does not take place right?
 
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Anthony
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booje wrote:
Oh snap! Yeah I see what you are saying. Movement is an action wherein a general is activated to move a stack of CUs. Retreat is totally separate.

Thanks!

Yeah Eddie B, the AH rulebook.

Oh, but if it not movement then a battle with that CU does not take place right?

Correct.
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Andy Latto
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booje wrote:
The battle is in Cosa with the attacking army entering from Tarquini. Carthage is defending and Rome has another army in Faesulae with no Carthaginian CUs present there.
Pisae contains a Roman PC and one Roman CU. Hannibal is defeated and must retreat with Pisae being the only option. Hannibal commands five CUs after defeat.

Question: Does the Overrun Rule 8.2 take place before the attrition penalty Rule 12.1?

People have correctly pointed out that overrun, like Interception and Avoid Battle, is part of Movement, not part of retreat. But in the situation you describe, the result is not just an additional CU lost to the Roman CU in Pisae. If the only possible retreat is to Pisae, and there is a Roman CU in Pisae, Hannibal's army is destroyed and Hannibal is killed.

Rule 15.1 says that
Quote:
The loser of the battle must retreat to a space that is both friendly controlled (contains a friendly PC) and clear of enemy CUs, or to a space that contains more friendly CUs than the retreating force.

You can retreat through a space with enemy CU, at a cost of 1 CU from the retreating army per enemy CU in the space moved through. But you can never end your retreat in a space containing an enemy CU.
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Anthony
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andylatto wrote:
booje wrote:
The battle is in Cosa with the attacking army entering from Tarquini. Carthage is defending and Rome has another army in Faesulae with no Carthaginian CUs present there.
Pisae contains a Roman PC and one Roman CU. Hannibal is defeated and must retreat with Pisae being the only option. Hannibal commands five CUs after defeat.

Question: Does the Overrun Rule 8.2 take place before the attrition penalty Rule 12.1?

People have correctly pointed out that overrun, like Interception and Avoid Battle, is part of Movement, not part of retreat. But in the situation you describe, the result is not just an additional CU lost to the Roman CU in Pisae. If the only possible retreat is to Pisae, and there is a Roman CU in Pisae, Hannibal's army is destroyed and Hannibal is killed.

Rule 15.1 says that
Quote:
The loser of the battle must retreat to a space that is both friendly controlled (contains a friendly PC) and clear of enemy CUs, or to a space that contains more friendly CUs than the retreating force.

You can retreat through a space with enemy CU, at a cost of 1 CU from the retreating army per enemy CU in the space moved through. But you can never end your retreat in a space containing an enemy CU.


Yes, great point, I was assuming the retreat was not stopping in that space.
 
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