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Subject: Flame Retardant Smackdown thread: Agricola v Puerto Rico rss

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Neil Christiansen
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I will go with "neither".

Puerto Rico is a bit stale and overly economic.

Agricola has imbalanced card problems galore and is long for what it is.

I prefer El Grande, Carson City, or Brass.
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Clement Tey
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chris1nd wrote:
I will go with "neither".

Puerto Rico is a bit stale and overly economic.

Agricola has imbalanced card problems galore and is long for what it is.

I prefer El Grande, Carson City, or Brass.

PR seems like you're just doing the same thing every game.

Agricola is too fiddly with the restocking, and the game play usually drags too long.

Gun to my head, Agricola.
 
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Andy Leber
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I was a huge fan of PR, and played the hell out of it for over a year. It started getting a bit stale (not a knock on the game, We would have wanted a break from any game at that point).

So we picked up Agricola. Although we enjoyed Agricola, PR just seemed better to all but one person in our group. I, in particular, wasn't the biggest fan of the limited turns. I know it's the whole point of the game, but I felt TOO rushed, and felt like I didn't have a chance to enjoy the work I had done.

However, after about 10+ plays, Agricola had grown on us greatly, and our pick for "favorite" is probably split down the middle, and ultimately probably depends on what we're in the mood for.

To summarize, it's probably too close to call, but I think Agricola has a slight edge in our group, and we're particularly excited to try the expansion, "Farmers of the Moor".



 
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What a lousy review. You played the game wrong!

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Harald Torvatn
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I like Puerto Rico very much, I think Agricola is boring.

I think the reason is: The different choises in PR feels dramatically different (Build or produce?), the different choises in Agricola feels very similar (all of them is bringing home a small part of a farm.).
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Kellen Feral
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Love em both

If I was in a super competitive mood I would probably get out Puerto Rico. It reminds me more of chess in that way

Agricola is our go-to game right now. 4 player is just so much fun.
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Reach 93
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Although I haven't rated Agricola a 1, I think it is vastly inferior to PR. PR is an elegant, brilliant design; Agricola barely even qualifies as a 'game' in my view: more of an 'activity'. The hundreds of cards give the impression of depth, but really just mask the empty shell beneath it. My views pretty much mirror all the negative things that Agricola-haters have said about it over the last year or two.

Regarding the fight for the number one spot, I suppose I am happy that PR occupies it. Ultimately it doesn't - or shouldn't - mean much, but if a game were to overtake PR again, I think I would be happier if it were something other than Agricola.

(I have been playing Le Havre a lot lately, and - interestingly - I find the gap in quality between it and Agricola to be quite staggering. Le Havre is a wonderfully-designed game; the more I play the game the more I admire it. The fact that the same guy designed both games is more interesting to me than the 'fight' between Agricola and Puerto Rico...)
 
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Железный комиссар
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Quote:
and the effect of that was large enough to cause the system here to be adjusted or need tweaking to account for this (at least, that's my understanding


Could you provide a link for this? I was paying close attention during the PR-Agricola flip-flopping, and as far as I know no "adjustments to the system" were made. There's a shill-buster in place and has been for four years. I don't think anyone has any idea how many shills were made for either side and what percentage were filtered out. I'm sure there's plenty of speculation, but if you've read something like an admin announcement, I'd like to see it.
 
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Geoff Burkman
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ldsdbomber wrote:

- how many of you fall in the camp of "both are great, impossible to really say which is best, the difference is wafer thin and could vary from day to day"


In terms of which is "best," the Ugoi are indifferent.

Quote:
- how many of you have a slight preference for one over the other and why. is it more typical to like one if you like the other but still have a preference. is it based on who you play with, what mood you are in, or just something about the game


The Ugoi favor Agricola, if only because the variety of play is greater, especially with "FotM" and/or "TtS," and as well, PR simply "feels" drier. Ditto for Caylus, which I haven't been able to get to the table in ages. I also enjoy Age of Empires III a lot, but can't get that one to the table much, either.

There is a distinct possibility that I prefer Agricola because it's just so daggone easy to keep a session record compared to the others, but the truth is that I really haven't made an attempt to keep session records of the others. Mayhaps I should give that a try...
 
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Andy Leber
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MisterG wrote:
ldsdbomber wrote:

- how many of you fall in the camp of "both are great, impossible to really say which is best, the difference is wafer thin and could vary from day to day"


In terms of which is "best," the Ugoi are indifferent.

Quote:
- how many of you have a slight preference for one over the other and why. is it more typical to like one if you like the other but still have a preference. is it based on who you play with, what mood you are in, or just something about the game


The Ugoi favor Agricola, if only because the variety of play is greater, especially with "FotM" and/or "TtS," and as well, PR simply "feels" drier. Ditto for Caylus, which I haven't been able to get to the table in ages. I also enjoy Age of Empires III a lot, but can't get that one to the table much, either.

There is a distinct possibility that I prefer Agricola because it's just so daggone easy to keep a session record compared to the others, but the truth is that I really haven't made an attempt to keep session records of the others. Mayhaps I should give that a try...


Ugoi?
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Steven
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My wife and I love both games. Both are deliciously tense and brain-burny affairs. Agricola has a richer and more immersive theme (for us). Puerto Rico is shorter and less punishing. Our mood and the amount of time we have to play usually decides which we choose.
 
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Andy Leber
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celiborn wrote:
My wife and I love both games. Both are deliciously tense and brain-burny affairs. Agricola has a richer and more immersive theme (for us). Puerto Rico is shorter and less punishing. Our mood and the amount of time we have to play usually decides which we choose.



Agreed. While they have a similar mechanic, I think they are well different enough to enjoy both, and it just depends on our mood.

I also find PR much quicker, particularly in the setup department.
 
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David Williams
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Game rating is a measure of popularity, not quality. The two games are appealing in different ways. People have attempted to rectify popularity with their personal evaluation of quality. Personally, I think this is best avoided or I would be standing outside of the movie theater convincing people to see something other than the latest version of the Transformers. Therein lies the path to madness... wow
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Andy Leber
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hycanth wrote:
Game rating is a measure of popularity, not quality. The two games are appealing in different ways. People have attempted to rectify popularity with their personal evaluation of quality. Personally, I think this is best avoided or I would be standing outside of the movie theater convincing people to see something other than the latest version of the Transformers. Therein lies the path to madness... :wow:


While I would like to agree with you in theory, popularity is still relevant.

Just because a game is highly ranked, it obviously doesn't mean you'll like it. But it's highly suggestive that, as a gamer, there's likely something to be enjoyed...

50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong. You may not like a particular game, but if you're looking for a game, checking out what's popular is a good place to start.

Nitpicking whether something should be ranked #1, or #2, or #15 though, is ridiculous.


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Magnus Esko
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I'm tired of both. Puerto Rico is the game that got me into boardgaming and I have played it and enjoyed it for a long time but I have played it too much for me to have fun with it. Agricola just have too much stuff and is too fiddly for me to bother and I'm not as much into worker placement games anymore. I rate Puerto Rico higher simply because it is more likely that I play it then Agricola. I love playing new (for me) games and my 2 new favorites are Notre Dame and Cosmic Encounter.
 
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Geoff Burkman
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Holmes108 wrote:
...Ugoi?


Usual gang of idiots. cool
 
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Benny And The
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This is an easy choice. AGRICOLA!!

I own both games and have played both of them many times. Puerto Rico does feel very much the same every time (although I think if I had the expansion buildings I would like it a lot more). Agricola has much more variety and I build a very different farm every time. Many people feel that they are too rushed when playing Agricola. I felt this way when I first started playing as well but after about 5-10 plays you get a better grasp of how to manage everything. I also find that the expansion actually makes it feel even less rushed. I really enjoy 2 player Agricola. If you are playing a skilled opponent it can turn into the ultimate chess match which is tons of fun.

One last final point is that I enjoy Agricola's presentation a lot more. The purple tile buildings of Puerto Rico are pretty dull when compared to the vast array of artwork in Agricola. I also enjoy how the way you place your fields/house/fences matters in Agricola. In Puerto Rico you can just throw things down on your mat in any order and it has no effect.

To sum it up. Both are great games but I enjoy Agricola more. AGRICOLA!!
 
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Thomas O
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PR is better, but not by much in my opinion. Although I enjoy both.

The rules for PR are simpler and more intuitive. You have a maximum of seven choices in each round in PR compared to the larger variety of choices in Agricola. Agricola gives more reward to knowing the game better, for example which occupations and improvements are better, more than which buildings to build in agricola. Therefore for more infrequent games for less competitive players PR every time.

Agricola rewards aggressive play more than PR too in my experience. Taking an Agricola action simply to deny it to other players is a valid strategy, while in PR the may not get the same benefit but still get the use of the action preventing deliberately hindering play.

Oh and I reckon you can play 2 PR games in the time taken for 1 agricola game.
 
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David Williams
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Holmes108 wrote:
hycanth wrote:
Game rating is a measure of popularity, not quality. The two games are appealing in different ways. People have attempted to rectify popularity with their personal evaluation of quality. Personally, I think this is best avoided or I would be standing outside of the movie theater convincing people to see something other than the latest version of the Transformers. Therein lies the path to madness... wow


While I would like to agree with you in theory, popularity is still relevant.

Just because a game is highly ranked, it obviously doesn't mean you'll like it. But it's highly suggestive that, as a gamer, there's likely something to be enjoyed...

50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong. You may not like a particular game, but if you're looking for a game, checking out what's popular is a good place to start.

Nitpicking whether something should be ranked #1, or #2, or #15 though, is ridiculous.


Yes of course there is a correlation between popularity and quality. The strength of that correlation depends upon the similarity betweeen you and the population being considered. 50 million Elvis fans aren't "wrong", but they can like Elvis for reasons you have no interest in. If you lose this perspective you might become overinvested in rankings.
 
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John Moller
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I'm late to this particular party, and expect little to no discussion on my response. No worries there.

I have finally played Puerto Rico. I had it for almost two months before I took the time to pull it out and learn it. I've played it several times in the last week.

Agricola I started learning throughout the summer, purchased a copy and have played with varied groups of people (I've caused the sale of four other copies of that game.)

I personally choose Agricola as my preference. I like Puerto Rico, but I just like Agricola more. That's simply between the two. I find both games exasperating, tense and sometimes unfulfilling. Neither are at the top of my all time favorite list. I think each offers different positives and negatives and really, who wants it any other way?

I see similarities between the two. I can recognize why people lump them together in some cases or why they feel so closely matched. I won't say I agree with that, but I won't deny it either.

I'll toss Agricola on the table first mainly for the sheer fact that I'm not ever fully denied something. There's always a chance I'll get the resource I need if I play different or better. Puerto Rico flat out denies resources and buildings to players, I'm not a fan of that.

Good thread.
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I have both games, and I have to say I like Puerto Rico much more than Agricola for a couple reasons. (disclaimer: I haven't played a 3+ player Agricola game yet as it's just been my wife and I)

The group I play with are not hardcore gamers. In fact, I'm new to Eurogames having been "won over" by so many people from Settlers of Catan.

For me, Agricola is too "stressful" at times with the limited turns, always worrying about food, and the quite severe hits you take by not rounding out your farm (-1 instead of +1 means you lose 2 points for not having every animal type, a vegetable, a pasture, all spots filled, etc).

I also really enjoy the fact that you don't always know how good (or how bad) you're doing with Puerto Rico. Since the VPs are hidden, and I don't try to remember exactly how many points everyone has, I enjoy the game all the way to the end, where surprise, I lost by 10 points.

On the other hand, I can tell pretty easily how badly I'm doing at Agricola, and combined with the stress of constantly gathering food can make (at least for me) for a not so fun gaming experience.

My wife and I have been playing the single player Agcricola version just to get some practice.
 
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Fippy Darkpaw
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I gave Agricola a 9 and PR a 10. Here's why:

PR:

- just the right length
- smaller more elegant rule set and gameplay
- more player interaction

Agricola:

- can last too long sometimes
- less player interaction
- some imbalanced cards

 
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