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Subject: Dungeon without a winning chance? rss

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Jan Richter
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I was wondering, how often do you go into the dungeon with the intention of losing so that you can put a monster out of the hall and back in the deck? (Not counting times where you just wanted to use some effect of your heros like trashing diseases with the cleric etc.)

I haven´t done it once and i´ve played somewhat between 15-20 games. It seems you always have something better to do.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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After a few dozen games, I don't think anyone has done it itentionally. Its happened on attacks where there was a gamble on a daw, but not anyone intentionally suiciding.
 
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Vasilis
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Ι do it a few times in every game. If I don't need to buy anything useful, don't need to level up anyone and I cannot kill anything worthwhile, I try to remove any monster that I know that my deck cannot beat so that my opponents cannot kill it and gain its VPs. I don't do this on low-VP monsters of course.

Morevover, if I know that I'm winning because I have a fast kill strategy {which means that I have lots of cards with small VP values which I know that they will clutter my deck later}, I try to end the game faster by refilling the dungeon.
 
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Dan Cavaliere
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We've had a few games where we've started with big monsters like Tyrix, Sphynx, Ebon Fume, etc. all up in the opening dungeon ranks. We've gone in and bumped them if we felt someone was going to get them quicker than the rest of us or to just get the game moving.

We've also had some interesting 'end game' situations where something like the Sphynx in rank 1 with the Thunderstone ready to be grabbed in Rank 2 with it. If you can't beat the Spynx and you think the next player will, you better go and bump it out he doesn't end up with 11 pts in the end yuk
 
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I H
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Gamer DC wrote:
We've also had some interesting 'end game' situations where something like the Sphynx in rank 1 with the Thunderstone ready to be grabbed in Rank 2 with it. If you can't beat the Spynx and you think the next player will, you better go and bump it out he doesn't end up with 11 pts in the end yuk


I did this last game. In fact, I failed against the wimpy monster in Rank 2 the turn before because I was fairly confident that no one could beat the Sphinx that round.

Whenever it's 1) near endgame (you're not likely to shuffle through the deck again), 2) you can't upgrade/buy a level 3 hero and 3) you can't win in the dungeon, you should strongly consider failing against a high VP monster in the dungeon. Likewise, if the Thunderstone is in Rank 2, you should strongly consider ending the game.
 
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Frank Reese
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Gamer DC wrote:
We've also had some interesting 'end game' situations where something like the Sphynx in rank 1 with the Thunderstone ready to be grabbed in Rank 2 with it. If you can't beat the Spynx and you think the next player will, you better go and bump it out he doesn't end up with 11 pts in the end yuk


I've done this a few times. The biggest problem with the end game is if it's a small game, why would you attack the dungeon when the 3rd rank has the stone, because you're essentially giving your opponent a chance to radically outscore you. And why wouldn't you attack the dungeon's 1st space if the stone is in the second? (There's no reason because even if your opponent can't beat it, they'll pull the same move.)

There probably should be an auto advance rule, if every player has had a chance to go to the dungeon and no one chooses to, every monster advances one place. Add in a new stack of monsters if this moves to quickly of course.
 
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Jan Richter
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Thanks for all the answers, seems like I haven´t overlooked some important strategy. Only if it´s the endgame i will bounce a monster with high VP values if i´m not able to beat it.
 
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Andrew Snyder
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I'll do it when I want to deprive my opponent of VP or spoils, or when I want to 'suffer' a combat effect.
 
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Craig Hallstrom
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Definitely do it to suffer a combat effect - i.e. death to militias. Also any monster with 4 or more VP is a potential target - if I can't reasonably kill it in my next draw it needs to go! Do not let your opponents look too long at a big monster - they will find a way to kill it.
 
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Artemus Maximus
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i find the strategy of intentionally losing to a monster to make it go away with no ill-effect to you besides battle effects out of the theme and sometimes attacking just for the battle effects game breaking in some cases, so we play with the Prowling Monsters variant exclusively to help mitigate that where you take negative VPs for each loss. Ppl only lose to monsters now when they're taking a gamble entering the dungeon in hopes they might draw enough to kill something.

magically making the monster disappear back into the deck we leave to magic things like Banish, Elf, Blessed Hammer etc so that option remains, but each to his own!
 
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Ricky
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Killer Spaceman wrote:
we play with the Prowling Monsters


Which variant is that?
 
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Stephen Davis
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I have done this and seen it done several times to trigger breech effects, specifically elementals that kill heroes/militia and the Doomsday Champion. Strategically it can be done for several other reasons, such as removing a tougher monster to speed up the game, manipulating the dungeon hall, or denying your opponent a kill - big or small. Once you get ahead in the deck + vp department, anything goes to stay there.
 
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