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Agincourt: Lots of fun if you want to see the French nobility get their asses handed to them.

Introduction

The Battle of Agincourt wasn’t won by the English Longbow as history likes to tell.

Rather it was won by Rain, Wine and French Arrogance.

Taken by “surprise” the French drinking was interrupted by a hail of English Arrows.



The French nobles, all wanting Henry V for themselves, jostled for position and advanced, in what was little more than a disorganised mob.

The mounted men-at-arms (MM) trudged their horses through the mud and charged! They were forced into charging the English Dismounted Men-at-Arms (DM) as the archers picked them off, protected behind a wall of stakes. They didn’t survive long.

Behind the mounted nobles, the French DM advanced slowly through the mud. They also faced the wrath of the English Longbow, but managed to break into the English lines in a few places.



But they were routed and ran through their own archers and crossbowmen in their hurry to retreat. They had little regard for those hired underlings.

This French Crossbowmen and Archers did advance, and partially disrupt the English line. But they were out ranged, and out shot by the English. Having no stomach to die for their French Lords, they preferred to go AWOL rather than retire to the French Battle Standard.



Soon, the French had lost half of their men, while the outnumbered English were rallying and reforming their lines.

An unhistorical lucky arrow took Henry V’s life, but still the French had to surrender the battle.



Aftermath

Wow, those historical rules are rough on the French. Although, I don’t think they have much more of a chance without the Special Historical Rules.

At the end of the battle, two English DM were retired and Henry V was killed. Compared to half of the French army which was eliminated.

A blow out.

I’m actually thinking that this isn’t a bad quick scenario to introduce new players to the system. Full game, including set-up and 15-minute explanation can probably be done in about an hour total. But please, let the newbie play Henry.
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Christopher
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Yes, it's a great introduction battle! It was also the first medieval wargame battle I ever played.

It took me a moment to realize what Henry V was doing at the bottom of the map. For a second I thought he was trying some weird flanking maneuver all on his own...
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Andrew Young
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Are there rules to make it balanced?

Andy
 
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Ralph Shelton
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Some of the rules that hose the French, such as the Chivalry and Aggression rules, could be dropped to help balance the scenario. I believe the newer rules talk about that.
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medievalbanquet wrote:
Are there rules to make it balanced?

Andy


This is Agincourt! We don't want balance! We want to see the huge French army get squashed by Henry and few longbowmen!

As said above, you could make the French smarter by ignoring the Aggression, Chivalry and other rules. This would obviously lead to a very ahistoric outcome. I for one wouldn't do it. The French aggression/chivalry are as ingrained into the unit as their MPs, combat power etc. They just aren't shown on the counter.

Yes, the French could've won Agincourt, but only if they weren't French.

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Thanks!

I don't play games to walk through the historical outcome. Not sure how fun that is at all. I'll read the book. I'm interested in being the commander and 'winning' or losing based upon historical information (of which we know very little)… but, replaying it. Not walking through a futile situation. Why even have flight levels then at all? To provide a way to stop the game? Stop it on your own if you believe you are 'seeing' history. For me, its a game.


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I agree, but this scenario is too far from a "tournament" scenario to be competitive. It's more like a quick filler or it can be used to teach someone the system. I don't have an answer how to tweak the RP/VP conditions to make this one "fair".

In this case, I think removing the French's special rules, would be akin to saying the longbows can only fire at their own men. It isn't how those units behaved. Just because a characteristic isn't on a counter, doesn't mean it is any less integral to "simulating" that unit than the actual -2 MM that is printed on it.

Obviuosly, you are free to change the set up/units however you like to "make it fair". My opinion is just stay away from this scenario all together. There are much better 2-player Men of Iron scenarios.

Finally, make sure you have fun either way!
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Andrew Young
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Thanks Randy!

I guess in some ways I'm upset.

laugh

Agincourt is a classic medieval battle, right? I know it was a mess for the French. But, I'd love the opportunity to game it with the French having a chance to 'win' (maybe, they hold out just long enough to be considered the victor in the time this scenario takes, maybe they inflict a few more losses than was historical and can then be considered to have won the scenario, etc). But, to design it so the French are massacred outright doesn't teach me a thing, IMO.

I'd like to not stay away but I may take your advice.

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I've played it, always with the hose the French rules, and nearly won. With a little more luck, I would have. I broke the English line and nearly killed Henry. It isn't hopeless, as the French have a much higher flight level than the English.

I'd ask if you have played it, or are only going on others reports?

The "Historical" rules constrain your attack patterns, but do not force you to attack without rallying your units that start disordered (the entire French Army). They also give the English an initial edge. If they are unable to take advantage of that edge, they can lose. If all the French do is move disordered Mounted Men-at-Arms to attack the English, as happened historically, they will lose. Some games are going to be a total slaughter, depending on the actions the players take or the die rolls. Others will be much closer, due to the same factors. The question is can you figure out the best way to work within the scenario rules to achieve victory?

The balance issue comes into play because the victory conditions are not nuanced. You either win or lose, there is no marginal victory, as in other systems. You are left to judge whether you did better than your historical counterpart and had a good time playing the game.
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Other reports.

 
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You don't have to abandon Historical results to make a game fair. You could say that the English only get 1 VP for every 10 French Killed. The French get 1 VP for every English killed. The point of a game IMHO is to make is similar to the outcome, but set the victory conditions to give both sides a chance to "win."

Objective Kiev (Also featured in C3I) says the Russians tie if they hold just one city. I wouldn't call that a victory for the Soviets in 1941....but it is a victory for the Soviet PLAYER in 2013. :-)

 
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Ralph Shelton
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Indeed, but that isn't the way Richard designs games.
 
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