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Subject: Anybody else bothered by the game end condition rules? rss

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Specifically, when the draw deck goes out, or someone uses the last on-site foundation, the game ends IMMEDIATELY, as opposed to letting all of the other players finish out the role?

It has gotten some people in my groups to really dislike that part of the game, even to the point where it extends fully to the game itself. I don't mind it. Frankly, I consider (yet) another thing you'd want to pay keen attention to when the moment draws near. I suppose there's also too much of a "eurogames mentality" that everyone gets equal # of turns, or the turn/phase/round always gets finished out. OTOH, it's worth noting that something like this does fuel the fires of "Craftsman and (to a lesser degre) Architect clients are too powerful".


*
On a somewhat related note, one of them who enjoys Bohnanza doesn't mind that when the game ends, cards in hand become useless (can NOT be planted and thus harvested). He cites you can see this coming and that it's not a surprise that gets sprung on you. Even though a GtR game's ending has crept up on me from time to time, I acknowledge that if you pay attention, you should be able to see it coming well in advance, save for some power plays or collaboration (both intentional and unintentional)
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Железный комиссар
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No, I like the end condition rules. It's important to stress them for a learning game, since they're so atypical, but in practice they just add more interesting decisions to the game.
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mojo shivers
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I like the end game conditions as is. A good deal of the game is knowing when to end the game while you're ahead and before anyone else can optimize their strategy/engine. There are some combos that take awhile to get going and others that can score you quick points before sputtering. Knowing which is which only comes from repeated plays.
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Jeremiah Lee
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If the group wants to, they can play out the turn. No reason you can't make games suit what your group enjoys. It's better than not playing it at all.
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Noreen Walsh-Esrey
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mojo shivers wrote:
I like the end game conditions as is. A good deal of the game is knowing when to end the game while you're ahead and before anyone else can optimize their strategy/engine. There are some combos that take awhile to get going and others that can score you quick points before sputtering. Knowing which is which only comes from repeated plays.


This exactly. When Joe and I play the game is either fast or slow. If it's fast, it's because I got ahead in points and did whatever it took to end the game. If it's slow, it's because I couldn't get points before he got some machine going, and he absolutely will not end the game until the cards are gone.
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Zaphod
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I'm wondering about the same thing.

Two Player games are very strange, since after the first Site is placed, any player can end the game at once (with a architect/craftsment and the correct color in hand). That means, whowever goes in the lead and stays one turn in the lead has a high chance of winning the game.

Are we doing some kind of strategical mistake (i.e. never play the 2nd last Site when you're not in the lead)?
 
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Wakefield Morys-Carter
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Beeblebrox wrote:
I'm wondering about the same thing.

Two Player games are very strange, since after the first Site is placed, any player can end the game at once (with a architect/craftsment and the correct color in hand). That means, whowever goes in the lead and stays one turn in the lead has a high chance of winning the game.

Are we doing some kind of strategical mistake (i.e. never play the 2nd last Site when you're not in the lead)?


All of the town sites have to be used, not just all of one type. In a two player game, ignoring out of town sites, that means that the game will end when the 12th site has been placed. Yes, you might not want to select the 11th site if you think the other player is winning and you can change the outcome by completing your existing buildings or putting more resources into your vault.
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Zaphod
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Wake wrote:
All of the town sites have to be used, not just all of one type. In a two player game, ignoring out of town sites, that means that the game will end when the 12th site has been placed. Yes, you might not want to select the 11th site if you think the other player is winning and you can change the outcome by completing your existing buildings or putting more resources into your vault.


blushblushblush
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Beeblebrox wrote:
Wake wrote:
All of the town sites have to be used, not just all of one type. In a two player game, ignoring out of town sites, that means that the game will end when the 12th site has been placed. Yes, you might not want to select the 11th site if you think the other player is winning and you can change the outcome by completing your existing buildings or putting more resources into your vault.


blushblushblush
Some people play the variant where in a 2p game, you have 3 onsite foundations per type instead of just 2. Of course, that just opens up another whole can-of-worms about Architects and Craftsman clients, etc....
 
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